Montgomery Rebanding

[wwhitby]

I did a little research, since I considered buying a ProVoice radio. I didn't go through with it because of the cost and possibly being considered to have "hacked" a trunked system for which I had no official access.

From what I remember, there is a numerical option that has to be enabled for ProVoice. Those would be what is shown in the eBay add. I don't remember the number of the ProVoice option that has to be enabled, but I do remember it was in the 20s.

I was also told that a lot of MA/COM-Harris radios were being sold on eBay advertised as ProVoice capable, but were not really capable. Definately caveat emptor!

After getting a radio, you would need to have it programmed. Programmer is the name of the software and it isn't cheap, provided the dealers or Harris will even sell it to you. There is (was?) a company called Mutual Aid Supplies that would program your radio for receive only, non affiliate. I don't know if they are still do that or not. The owner was taking a lot of flak for programming RX only EDACS radios.

From what i've read, public safety takes a dim view of commercial radios programmed for their trunked system, regardless if they are recieve only or not. To some, its considered hacking a trunked system. Also, some agencies have the capabliity to brick radios over the air that don't belong on their system.

Personally, I would not recommend doing this.

Warren

 

[skywarner]

Thanks Warren

Appreciate your perspective. Sounds right to me, I would not be surprised if they were to take a very dim view of it. I understand that sooner or later all the Montgomery County VFDs are moving onto the system exclusively, so they are no longer on 453.850 but perhaps they are staying analog? If not then they are going to have to give provoice radios to all the volunteers. just wondering.

Yes, the people who say they will program the radios for your EDACS system are definitely not your reputable established new equipment dealers, thats for sure.

I agree with you about what should and what should not be public. In Montgomery there is a lot of covering up, a lot of crime you never hear about because it will "hurt property values" such as they are. Monitoring MPD and MCSO really helped give a better picture. Oh well.

Again, thanks.

 

[wwhitby]

I think the VFDs have been given "hand me down" radios from the SO (or other agencies) so I suspect they won't be going digital.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I wish the agencies in Montgomery would have kept their dispatch talkgroups analog. I listened in to find out about weather conditions, as well as finding out if any car wrecks were in my path.

Warren

 

[skywarner]

The Media

I spoke to someone who is close to the folks at Channel 12 and he said that (1) the delay on the website of the MPD feed will be five minutes; and more interestingly, (2) the station staff are going to go to one of these aftermarket sellers of used Harris P700 radios and get themselves a bunch of ProVoice radios programmed for Montgomery so they don't have to wait five minutes when stuff happens. Interesting.

Legally, it seems to me that ProVoice is NOT encryption. ProVoice is simply a proprietary digital encoding of the voice signal, and therefore I cannot imagine that going out and buying a ProVoice enabled radio is somehow against the law. I can imagine that the public service agencies are not going to like it, and I bet they would get very upset if we used the information in some way (like putting it on the web live) but I think other than that there is little they can do about it.

Now of course there is the worry that even a non-affiliated radio could be bricked if they really wanted to do that. But somehow I think they are not going to go to that trouble. Means too much work. We will see ...

 

[wwhitby]

Legally, it seems to me that ProVoice is NOT encryption. ProVoice is simply a proprietary digital encoding of the voice signal, and therefore I cannot imagine that going out and buying a ProVoice enabled radio is somehow against the law.

You are correct. ProVoice is only a propriatery digital modulation format. It isn't an encryption format, however its been used as "poor man's encryption" since MA-COM/Harris won't license scanner manufacturers for it.

It isn't illegal, and you don't have to have a FCC license to buy a ProVoice equipped radio. However, IMHO, the programming of that radio for your local trunked system is a gray area. There have been folks that have gotten into legal trouble for programming radios for trunked systems, even receive only. IIRC, out in Oklahoma City and in the Atlanta area. Most radio shops won't program the radios for you. As I mentioned earlier, some public safety organizations consider it hacking a system, since you are not an authorized user.

I can imagine that the public service agencies are not going to like it, and I bet they would get very upset if we used the information in some way (like putting it on the web live) but I think other than that there is little they can do about it.

They can remotly brick radios, use ESK or encrypt. They could also sue, get an injunction, or even raid a news room. It depends on how they want to up the ante.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be a legal test case.

 

[skywarner]

Nope

it definitely would not be worth it. oh well.
so for now my trunk radios are set to monitor the Montg County VFDs, the intercity, and the "disaster" which is strange because I hear all sorts of stuff on that talkgroup (798) that does not fit anything like the definition of disaster.

Again, thanks Warren for all your work and your good judgment.

 

[skywarner]

Do you have info on site number?

Warren, what does unitrunker say about the site number for the Montgomery Metro EDACS system??? Any info?

 

[wwhitby]

I'm seeing site 10 for the Montgomery North System, and Site 20 for the Montgomery South System in Unitrunker

Sorry its taken me so long to reply. December was a rough month...

Warren

 

[puzzleriddle]

Anyone been receiving TG 611 since Friday afternoon.. heardmention of a Command post & the main user Is AIR 1 I think the DPS HELO

 

[mel1718]

I am listening to it right now (analog), sounds like some type of security for a deligation of congress members touring downtown Montgomery. Also picking up Tg 1362 (digital) which is the MPD following the same tour.

 

[puzzleriddle]

Thanks! me1718... it's part of the Semla to Montgomery march reenactment PM me on any TG's that you have Id'd from the system please & I Have a few also.
Thanks!!

 

[skywarner]

Thanks Warren. I had someone who programs radios interested, and those are the site numbers he came up with.

 

[puzzleriddle]

Heard this weekend the Annual zoo weekend traffic on TG 613... looks like the 6XX series will be "special events TG's or just plain TAC ( talkaround Channels.
also caught the 155.20 to MA 1( TRS) patch Thursday or Friday doing survielliance

 

[agent719]

My 895XLT is trunking Dayton's system perfectly after rebanding. I just had to add the new control channel freq and two others. Looks like I wont need a new scanner after all.

 

[puzzleriddle]

In programing an edacs system you have to program ALL frequencies & in LCN order. also your county is probably NOT Digital Provoice?? also

 

[Thunderbolt]

You guys will be happy to know that this system is being overhauled by Harris, Inc. The format will change from EDACS to their P25IP. This is good news for scanner listeners.


73s

Ron

 

[puzzleriddle]

wrong forum

 

[wwhitby]

You guys will be happy to know that this system is being overhauled by Harris, Inc. The format will change from EDACS to their P25IP. This is good news for scanner listeners.


73s

Ron

Lets hope there won't be full time encryption!

Warren

 

[emtnate]

montgomery rebanding

im kinda new to all this trunk tracking scanning and read where you said montgomery was rebanding, i got my pro-94 trunk tracker out and checked the freqs out and there the same ones you have listed on here for my area, i did here a little analog traffic on one that sounded like DPS or Capitol Police going off duty. im unfamiliar with provoice and such. Does going digital mean i can no longer hear any traffic even if i have all the freqs in the correct order of the EDACS system? im trying to learn more about all this because we do not have direct radio contact with montgomery on PD or Fire channels and scanning is the only real time way of knowing whats happing in my area. please be patient with me as i have a small understanding of scanning and little to no knowledge about trunking. would love to be able to hear PD and Fire once again.

 

[skywarner]

Let's see if this makes sense

I am going to take a shot at giving you a response that (hopefully) will be correct and helpful.

The EDACS system is a system by which radio transmissions are allocated to frequencies. The allocation is transmitted on the control channel, so that when you are tuned in to the control channel, and your scanner can do EDACS trunking, then you can follow conversations and you can be "tuned in" to certain "channels" - in quotes because these channels are virtual. For instance, a dispatch channel may hop around from one radio frequency to another, but in EDACS if your trunking scanner is "tuned" to that dispatch talk-group, then it stays with it.

So much for EDACS. A different issue is encryption encoding (scrambling). What you are hearing now are only the channels that are not encoded. Montgomery EDACS uses the ProVoice system of encoding, a proprietary system that the manufacturer is not allowing scanners to install in their equipment. Right now the only talk-groups that are not encoded are volunteer fire departments, various Troy University groups, and the re-broadcasts of State trooper and Capitol Police transmissions. All Montgomery Police, Fire, and County Sheriff frequencies are encoded and cannot be monitored with scanners. They can only be monitored with properly programmed radio equipment from Harris M/A-COM.

The switch to P25 is part of a move to nationally standardize public service radio technology. All transmissions will all be digitally encoded as IP packets (just like the audio and video that reaches your computer over the internet and requires decoding by your software such as Windows Media Player, Winamp, or the like). There are two things contained in the announcement about the switch to P25, one good and one bad. The good is that through the feature NetworkFirst, EDACS legacy equipment (the stuff they have now) will work with the new system, so the unencoded talk-groups should continue to be available on scanners. The bad news is that OpenSky2 will be part of the system, which will be the encryption, and there are no scanners that decode OpenSky2. It is completely unknown which talk-groups will be encrypted and which ones will not, but a reasonable guess is that they are happy with the current system of encrypting all law enforcement and fire talk-groups.

If anyone finds any inaccuracies or incorrect statements, don't hesitate to post corrections, amplifications, or different perspectives.