More Radio Political Issues, this time in Bloomington, IL

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letarotor

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Sounds like a case of fifedoms and turf wars Lindsay, not radio communications issues. They were offered radios and refused them. Some of those Bloomington police administrators need to be taken out behind the woodshed to have some sense beaten into them! Good thing nobody got hurt.

Mark
 

RADIOGUY2002

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This is simple fix

Grow some balls and accept each other radios (spares or otherwise) and work with one another on a cross communicating ability. Or splt cost and by a unified command van that house comms for all agencies, simple.

The name of the game is interopeartability, and ispern is patched on every district in il for starcom 21. At least they got that right, back to the old days before technology became all advanced. Did we forget in IL that all police cars are suposed to be equiped with ispern vhf. Hmm I wonder why it was choosed to be patch district wide.

Politics or not, get over it and realize that not every situation all agencies are going to the inativite or pull their part. Rember sheriff is a political spot and aways has been more so then cities.
 

WCHija

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Politics

Actually, the position of Sheriff is usually much less political that Chief of Police. The Chief can be fired, usually without cause whenever the city counsel wishes. In California the problem got bad enough to where we passed legislation granting Police Chiefs some job security. The Sheriff only has to run for office every so often. Having said that, Law Enforcement nationwide has suffered from managers trying to be politically correct (no balls) for decades and we cops pay the price. As for interoperability, unless you have a blank check for everyone involved that becomes tricky. Even then everyone wants something different. There are many instances of cities not wanting to work with Sheriff's Departments because of petty rivalry issues. It sounds like bloomington should be spanked, HARD. They left a system that worked, not as well as they would have liked, but it worked and went to a non compatible system.
As for patching, comvans, ACU1000s etc, when we talke about response to active shooters there is typically no time to wait for someone to respond to the station, get a comvan or ACU or what ever. We use tactics measured in seconds to MINIMIZE death and injury. Jurisdiction I work in has one city that left vhf and went to uhf 30+ years ago and their system works great for them, they cant talk to anyone else. When they call for mutual aid we have a patch and it sounds terrible.
The taxpayers should demand that Local Governments and LE Managers do a better job of supporting the Deputies and Officers putting their asses on the line to get the people's business done and stop letting petty politics and a quest for PC behavior interfere with keeping your streets safe.
 

RADIOGUY2002

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Some Agreement

"The taxpayers should demand that Local Governments and LE Managers do a better job of supporting the Deputies and Officers putting their asses on the line to get the people's business done and stop letting petty politics and a quest for PC behavior interfere with keeping your streets safe."

I agree comptily to this part....

The sheriff, seems to do more campaning then any chief I ever seen. Thats what I was getting at. I rather have a com van then no van at all. And yes I undrstand that they take time to delpoy. No situation is perfect, but it needs to be a team effort period. Riviraly or not, your my fellow brother I come to save your ass. I might hate some of guys in your department or even you for that matter (understand what I'm saying), but I'm coming to your aid. Their is only one way that I wold not come to your aid, I think you can firgure that out. Everyplace has that one indiviual that seems to fall into that category.

As for interoperability, unless you have a blank check for everyone involved that becomes tricky, No, I don't. But at the same time I think starcom 21 is a bad idea for muncipatilies, when it becomes fail safe then maybe it might be the right direction. My prolbem is the apporach its being marketed on, everyone must first realize no system is perfect. Their claming its better then what they have, that might not be the case. It showed be lke any vendor that is held to demo standards., just my two cents.

Here a case study for ya and others

Local fd drops 16 channel ht1000's proven relabilty for communications in typical activities to go to motorola ht1250's okay. Ht1250 work decidenty well in comparison but have some prolbems. Plus, side more channels for better agency response and fg channels-make sense. Suppiled stock antenas are bad so their replaced out. Come a year later fire admin decides to get kenwood for fleetsync properties and choosed smaller radios with lots of features compared to the ht1250. Massivily fails on lots of platforms, what happens, they go back to the ht1000's. Anyone see a prolbem with this?


Jurisdiction I work in has one city that left vhf and went to uhf 30+ years ago and their system works great for them, they cant talk to anyone else.

I think this is a prolbem in alot of places, however I have seen mutiple agencies just recentily purchase and put in place both vhf and uhf in cars. Depends on the city and what clients they have, more so villages with mall's or schools seem to have both. Or at least a sgt's car that has both. I guess I put more thought into this when I designed my car setup. I have both vhf / uhf mobiles in adition to a scanner, along with two portables vhf and uhf that are carried usually both on me.. While its a major pain in the butt, I found out it works alot better. Plus, the car radios have capability to do LTR, stay ahead with the times or get left behind. Next comes p25 radios. So, I guess I can say I have a mini com car. And I have a very limited budget at that. I do not have 25,000 and upwards to put into a squad car.

Now here inlies the next prolbem, not all officers want to hear both radios. God, I know how much that can be a pain in the ***. Been their done that, plus the mdc/mdt talking and a car radio or the sgt chriping your damm nextel or other command every 20 minutes. In addition to the siren etc. Not fun, however when asked most officers prefer both. They just rather have one off or on, thats find. But having it their is better then not having it. The dept. I did my work with had both vhf and uhf in all their cars even their cso car, they also had a spare repeater kit delpoyable on what was know as the command channel which all officers had in their radios. I guess it pays to have a system tech guy in your department, while another dept have scanners and their own trunked system with portable spares to the localized pd. Okay, but really limited in their capabilities when somthing bad hapened or if the trunked system failed. Not well thought out and has a huge budget, plus a in house guy. So, I guess it varies on knowledge and what they really want it for. All I can say is that it would be in their best interest to have mutiple frequencies and radios based on what they serve and the potential that has been taking place in these environments.
 
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DaveNF2G

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Law enforcement needs to learn how to do unified command. The way it is generally simulated by most police agencies now is ineffective and inconsistent with what is supposed to happen. The fire service (most of the time) does it correctly.

First lesson of unified command - only the command post needs multiple radios, not every responder.
 

WCHija

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Fire Unified Command

Although Law Enforcement could do a better job with command and control, smiply emulating the Fire Service wont work for us. What LE and Fire are required to do are different enough that Fire unified command simply does not work for Law as well as it works for Fire. There is a reason Fire Fighters call us a Blue Canary.
 
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DaveNF2G

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That is the fundamental error of law enforcement planning.

COMMAND is the same regardless of service. OPERATIONS are different.

A unified COMMAND post need not distinguish fire from police. That is for the OPERATIONAL commanders in the field.
 
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