MOSWIN St. Louis County coverage

stlouisx50

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Which sites would cover I-70 from Earth City to St. Louis City?
I believe they would only be;
-Weldon Spring Site
-Jefferson County Site
-STL City North Site
However from Lindbergh Blvd to 170 it's a dead zone. Airport interference maybe?

What about from 270 North towards IL?
I have only been successful with the Weldon Spring Site for Hazelwood, then it's dead all the way to Illinois.
Is there another site that would cover that region?

Lastly I-64 from Weldon Spring to St. Louis City
Weldon Spring Site
Jefferson County Site
Seems to be a dead zone with when using the above sites from Frontenac to Maplewood.
 

kruser

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You might add the New Hope VHF site when going north. It carries some Troop C traffic and Troop F also at times. I can copy that site well here in Chesterfield but that's with an outdoor antenna.
Otherwise, your site list looks good for all three of your travel routes. As a test, try locking out the STL City North site due to it being a simulcast site. See if that helps with your VHF site reception. Depending on your radio, it could be spending tons of time trying to decode the North Site if it's having simulcast issues.
The VHF Moswin sites are not simulcast.

What radio are you currently using and what are you using for an antenna when you are running the routes you listed?

There is an 800 MHz Moswin site at Lambert airport also but I never scan it. I've watched its control channel before and the only traffic allowed on the site was airport operations talkgroups and I think some Metro transit talkgroups but not much else was allowed on that site.
I've never had reception issues near Lambert. If anything, my general coverage is better due to the higher elevation in that area.
There should be nothing around Lambert that would cause interference. If anything, airports are pretty darn clean areas when it comes to radio signals and interference is minimal (outside of the air bands and radar bands). Probably a lot of cell signals in that area but none that should hurt your reception.
 

stlouisx50

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I am still using the RadioShack Pro668. I have used various antennas rubber ducks that pick up well and not so well, An 800mhz antenna as well as have tried a telescopic. I have tried the New Hope site thinking that would work too, but you can barely pick it up on 370 and no luck on 270.

I figured the North City Site would work for 270 but no luck from 70 to the river.
as far as the North City site on 70, I can start picking that up from I170 to Salisbury Ave without issues

Just for info I can pickup the New Hope site at home on the Jpole full strength, but in the car from Warrenton, it's 1-3 bars until just west of Wright City, then hits 5 bars to about Foristell. At that point it's 1-4 bars and drops fully at HWY A in Lake St. Louis.

Is it possible MOSWIN is on the IL side and thats being used for the I-270 coverage? I can't imagine the area would be that dead.
 

kruser

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Get an external antenna on your car and you will be fine!

You might still have simulcast issues with the STL City 800 site but the VHF sites should come in fine with an external antenna on your roof.
If you don't make these trips often, a simple magnet mount should work just fine for testing. Something dual band that does VHF and 7/800 MHz.

I forgot to add that there are no Moswin towers on the Illinois side near our area. One down south and one up north I think but well out of our range.
 

kruser

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You might want to have a meet and greet with a local that has a SDS100 and make the same trip and compare the 2.
The VHF signals are good in this area but not so much if you are trying to receive them with a portable and its antenna located inside a car or truck!
I don't mess with the 800 MHz city site much as it does not carry the Moswin traffic I like to monitor.
 

llzel

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Let me jump in, St Louis City North 2(1) site is a simulcast site? If so, I thought Unication G4 would handle simulcast well. My G4 reboots way too often on 3 knob positions with just the St Louis City North site programmed (STL City EMS on one and STLFD Dispatch on the other and STLFD Command). My other knobs for SLATER never reboot. It's my second G4 too.
 

kruser

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Let me jump in, St Louis City North 2(1) site is a simulcast site? If so, I thought Unication G4 would handle simulcast well. My G4 reboots way too often on 3 knob positions with just the St Louis City North site programmed (STL City EMS on one and STLFD Dispatch on the other and STLFD Command). My other knobs for SLATER never reboot. It's my second G4 too.
I've been watching the Unication threads about the weird reboot issues you see with the STL City North site.
I have a G5 (VHF Secondary) and have monitored the same North Site for days without a reboot.
Like I said earlier though, I don't monitor the north 800 MHz site much these days so I should fire up the G5 and let it run on that site and see how it does these days as it has been a while.

And yes, the STL City North site is a simulcast site. Towers on Sublette, Union and Clark Ave.
I'm not sure if all three are active but I know at least two of the tower sites are.

edit: You can see the three tower sites that make up this simulcast site here: FCC Callsign KNJH492 (Board of Police Commissioners of the Metropolitan Police Department of the City of St. Louis)
 

llzel

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Interesting, someone else has said they have the issue with G4 but not their G5...I'm guessing it's how the G4 handles simulcast vs a G5. So the north site actually broadcasts from 3 towers? Forgive me, I've been reading up but still am unclear on how simulcasts work
 

kruser

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Interesting, someone else has said they have the issue with G4 but not their G5...I'm guessing it's how the G4 handles simulcast vs a G5. So the north site actually broadcasts from 3 towers? Forgive me, I've been reading up but still am unclear on how simulcasts work
I ran my G5 on fire on the STL City North site yesterday all day and never a reboot so who knows.

Yes, the cities north site has three towers that all transmit on the same frequencies at the same exact time.
That's what make simulcast issues so touchy as you get very small timing differences between when the signals hit your radio. Those small differences in timing is enough to throw off most scanners from decoding the data and recovering any audio from the scrambled mess!

I think both the north and south Slater Stl County sites have 5 or 6 sites each!.
For me, I never had issues with the city north site due to living so far west. The signals from two of the sites were never really strong enough here to mess with my reception. Slater was another story. I eventually did okay with Slater using a yagi antenna carefully aimed at a sweet spot.
Of course I now have the G5 and both Uniden SDS models which all handle simulcast systems very well so it's not as much a concern these days.

If simulcast is causing the G4 reboot issue, it should do it on the Slater system also with it also being simulcast and 800 MHz . I suppose there could be some data sentences on Moswin the G4 does not understand causing the G4 to reboot. That's getting beyond me though and I'd have no idea how to identify it.
I do know there are differences in the data Slater and Moswin sites put out on the control channel so the clue could be in the data.
 

scanman1958

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This reply has to be short because I am at work. I have never heard that the the city towers/sites are simulcast. The database is not showing them being simulcast. Also the city north site is very powerfull.Not sure why you are having trouble with it. I believe the downtown site (clark)is dead. I have been downtown looking for a specific signal from that tower and heard nothing. The airport site for MOSWIN is pretty low power but you will hear Troop C on it because I have heard them quite often. All the main sites locally, except for the city sites are VHF. If you are trying to get signals from them do not use a 800 MHz antenna.
 

kruser

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KRUSER I will PM you this evening.
Okay!

The city North 800 MHz site is simulcast for sure. It always has been in order to get coverage in south and north city after they went to the P25 system. I don't recall what they did when it was the old analog Motorola smartnet system.
Back in the early P25 system days (before they even called it a Moswin site), I had to aim my corner reflector antenna at the Union tower in order to avoid simulcast issues with the Sublette tower!
I later switched to a yagi and solved any problems I still had.

Click that link I posted a few posts up and you will see the three tower sites. The tower sites all use the same frequencies indicating simulcast.
Here's the map again showing the STL City North site tower locations. FCC Callsign KNJH492 (Board of Police Commissioners of the Metropolitan Police Department of the City of St. Louis)

I also believe you are correct in that the Clark site is off the air these days but the tower up on Union and the tower at Sublette are both on the air for sure which makes it a simulcast site.
For some reason, I think I recall someone saying the Clark tower can be turned on as a backup to the Sublette tower but that could have been something I heard way back in the days when they announced the were building the new "superstation" at Sublette. Do you remember when they called it a Super Station when they announced its construction there on Sublette?

None of the VHF Moswin sites are simulcast that I'm aware of. I'm not sure if any of the newer 700 MHz sites they have been lighting up across the state are simulcast either but the ones I checked in St Clair and Washington, MO were both single tower non-simulcast 700 MHz sites.

Oh well, shoot me a PM later when you are rested from working!

Edit: I forgot but the site at Lambert Airport is also listed as a simulcast site.
Someone recently asked if it really was but I don't know the true answer. The sites license shows three locations but only the far West and mid-East locations 1 and 4 are tower sites. Site 3 is listed as mobile use on the actual FCC license. It could be a possible site on wheels maybe (SOW)? I have no idea if sites 1 and 4 are both active at Lambert or not. As open as the airport is, you would not think they would need a simulcast system there but maybe so in order to cover inside the terminal buildings from tower site 1. You can see the tower sites at this link for Lambert's 800 MHz site: FCC Callsign WPEU462 (Saint Louis Lambert International Airport)
 
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nd5y

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Site 3 is listed as mobile use on the actual FCC license. It could be a possible site on wheels maybe (SOW)? FCC Callsign WPEU462 (Saint Louis Lambert International Airport)
A SOW would have more than one frequency and not be in the input range (806-821 MHz).
Location 2 with station class MO is for 701 15 watt mobiles on the input frequencies.
Location 3 with station class MO is for 20 3 watt mobiles on one frequency (811.9625) in analog FM only. There is no associated base frequency (856.9625) on that license.
 
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kruser

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A SOW would have more than one frequency and not be in the input range (806-821 MHz).
Location 2 with station class MO is for 701 15 watt mobiles on the input frequencies.
Location 3 with station class MO is for 20 3 watt mobiles on one frequency (811.9625) in analog FM only. There is no associated base frequency (856.9625) on that license.
That make sense then. I really did not pay that site's location 3that much attention and sure didn't notice that one oddball at location 3 with a mobile frequency but no associated base frequencies on the license. That could still be some remnant of whatever they had at that airport before the P25 days.
 

llzel

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I ran my G5 on fire on the STL City North site yesterday all day and never a reboot so who knows.

Yes, the cities north site has three towers that all transmit on the same frequencies at the same exact time.
That's what make simulcast issues so touchy as you get very small timing differences between when the signals hit your radio. Those small differences in timing is enough to throw off most scanners from decoding the data and recovering any audio from the scrambled mess!

I think both the north and south Slater Stl County sites have 5 or 6 sites each!.
For me, I never had issues with the city north site due to living so far west. The signals from two of the sites were never really strong enough here to mess with my reception. Slater was another story. I eventually did okay with Slater using a yagi antenna carefully aimed at a sweet spot.
Of course I now have the G5 and both Uniden SDS models which all handle simulcast systems very well so it's not as much a concern these days.

If simulcast is causing the G4 reboot issue, it should do it on the Slater system also with it also being simulcast and 800 MHz . I suppose there could be some data sentences on Moswin the G4 does not understand causing the G4 to reboot. That's getting beyond me though and I'd have no idea how to identify it.
I do know there are differences in the data Slater and Moswin sites put out on the control channel so the clue could be in the data.
BTW monitor st louis city EMS far more interesting then fire
 
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