Moto 800 MHz. System Transport Configurations

[Leebug]

Hello All.......

I run a large Motorola, 10 site SZ 3.0 system in Jacksonville, Fl......However, I'm in search of contact info for other large simulcast systems around the country that operate via fiber and/or microwave. I'm not to concerned about leased circuits, just goverment or company (utility) owned transport that provides site connections. My system in Jacksonville flips out everytime we have a ring switch on fiber. The T1's generally loose framing and can domino rather quickly if the condition persist. Now I know the problem, what I need is ammunition to support a dedicated microwave system. If anyone has a history (pro or con) in this arena, I would love to here about it.......Lee

 

[wsmoore]

Lee,
You know them cheap bastards aren't going to let you buy the microwave links!!!!!!Just keep *****ing to JEA about the T-1's.What's up old man! I see you survived the SuperBowl.Shep

 

[Leebug]

Shep.....Of course we survived. It was pretty interesting. The only snafu involved the State's "SLERS" stuff. That system couldn't handle a house fire.....Anyway, I just figured I would solicit the RR community for info. Although most of the members are listeners, I figured.... since I frequent the site, perhaps some other members have insight to their own system transport successes or lack thereof. JEA has a great ring infrastructure, but the Moto stuff is to picky. Noooooo Interuptions tolerated. We have dropped to FailSoft 3 times since October 8th, and had numerous other incidents where we just did recover before the 4th. control channel failed. Since the big "M" has made it clear that we are stuck with (@*&@$%!) TSTAT functions that disable our channels almost instantly, even a one second glitch can take the system out. As a matter of fact.....it happened after I posted this question on the RR website this morning......Failsoft for 5 minutes @ 1117 hours. It just takes that long to recover from a transport "burp". Since JEA has about 150 places this fiber pops in and out of.... engineering and buffering the short haul information to accomindate ring switches to the long way around hasn't been addressed, nor might it make dollar sense to implement. I know Gainesville hasn't had many problems down there except for a leased circuit to High Springs. The rest of the sites are connected by (what I consider a small) fiber ring. Tallahassee (microwave only) hasn't been down but once since it was installed.......This is the info I'm looking for with the exception of Philadelphia's system. I know their problems........Lee

 

[wsmoore]

Sounds like micro is the way to go.Tally seems to have a good record.I have heard the Moto guys out working on the problem.It is funny how a little hiccup can cause such a mess.The philly system is a mess,but it sounds like Vorizon has stepped up to take the blame on that one.

SLERS is a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The troopers I have talked to hate it.I also heard FDLE working on the old UHF system a couple of weeks ago and still hear St.Augustine FHP on VHF.

What is the deal with M/A tac 1 it sounds like crap? Shep

 

[N4DES]

Palm Beach County 800 TRS runs exclusively on digital microwave. 3 seperate loops with 13 total sites (10 Simulcast sites, 2 sites with drops to SO & FR/EMS Dispatch, & 1 Repeater). The system loop switches with no bit errors and transparent to the end users.

The only part of the system that is connected via BellSouth T-1's are 2 municipal hub connections (Boca Raton & Delray Beach). Those drop at a hint of bad weather and were in site trunking for at least a week after the hurricanes. We are looking at a fiber connection to them, but this is still in the planning stage.

We have had zero outages due to microwave issues since its inception in 2001 and even during last years hurricanes. The analog microwave that we still run as well had some dish alignment issues due to the hurricanes, but most of the major hops were still operational afterwards, it was just noisy.

 

[Leebug]

Thanks Mark......That's exactly what I'm looking for. Shep....I never know whether or not they have the simulcast sites up or single cells. Either way the audio sounds horrible. The best part about this is the State just awarded M/ACom the rest of Florida's Mutual-Aid build out in areas with disparent systems. I assume this includes TAC-2,3,4 and FLMA. Since most of Florida's agencies were stuck on VHf before SLERS arrived, it was an improvement. However, once they start forklifting the Moto systems down south, the SLERS will have to perform better than up here. Or else you will hear about from those officers and their unions......Lee

 

[wsmoore]

Lee,
Been hearing Nassau SO playing on the the Moto talkgroup are they going to come aboard the FCRS until they build their 9600 baud system?

You may want to get a hold of WayneH on this board ,I think he is a system manager out in CA (not sure if it is simulcast).He maybe able to help out with his experience on the transport issue. Shep

 

[WayneH]

I'm not a systems admin. I work and have worked with a lot of microwave though. I'd highly recommend it from from my experience provided you stick with some of the big names like Harris. I'm not big on Alcatel though. SBC uses it for some longhaul MW in San Diego County though so considering its payload is telephone conversations it must work well enough for them.

There're a ton of reasons to go microwave, more enough to outway the negatives (such as the build-out cost). I've seen the LEC knock out DS-3s by *accident* way too much. There's no excuse for that and all you get is an apology! As long as you require some significant bandwidth, MW is the way to go. If you only need a few DS1/T1s there are cheaper alternatives.

-Wayne

 

[mikewazowski]

My experience with Alcatel mw radios has been anything but good. We're in the middle of one PCN for a particular radio that's been ongoing for over 2 years now.

There's another PCN looming on the horizon for another type of Alcatel radio. They seem to have some serious problems these days.

Repair and return is probably the slowest of any vendor I've dealt with. On average it's a two month process and you're never sure that the part you get back will be repaired.

We've got everything from 8 DS1 radios up to 3 DS3 radios. Alcatel, Harris, Ericsson, Nortel, DMC, etc.

The Harris Microstar's seem to run pretty reliably. The typical microwave for us these days is the Ericsson Minilink (up to 16T1's) but it's too early to tell how they'll perform. It's a newer model and we've had some failures but nothing significant.

For high capacity I'm afraid it's Alcatel for us. The older 4000 series (3 DS3) have had most of the bugs worked out of them but the newer 8000's are a PITA.

I hear Ericsson is coming up with a 1 DS3 version of the Minilink but I've yet to see one.

Our experience with fiber is much better. We take a lot of feeds off of an OC48. So far we've only had a few outages.

Our experience with copper T1's from the local phone company has been anything but good. Count on major restoral time if one goes down.

Bottom line, it's much easier to maintain your own mw network. You schedule the preventative maintenace, you maintain your spares and you troubleshoot during outages. If it goes down then it's your neck on the line and you get it fixed. You don't have to listen to excuses for stuff that's not under your control. If you intrusively test on a live circuit then it's your job on the line. If somebody else does it, then it's your job to prove that they did it.

My $.02.