moto turbo mandate for arkansas

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steve0622

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My brother is on the fire dept in lake village, ar and he said the fire chief said last night that the new arkansas mandate is for all departments, ems, fire and police has to go mototurbo by 2013. I explained to my brother that that was not the mandate. It is required to go narrowband by 2013 but that does not mean everything must be mototurbo. Narrowband is just going from 25khz spacing to 12.5khz or smaller spacing which can be done on almost any new radio system. Does anyone have any knowledge of this "new mandate"?
 

steve0622

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thanks a bunch, i think the sales rep is just feeding them a bunch of bs considering all of chicot county now is mototurbo.
 

n5ims

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This new "mandate" probably has much more with the salesman's sales quota than anything that the FCC has required.
 

budevans

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thanks a bunch, i think the sales rep is just feeding them a bunch of bs considering all of chicot county now is mototurbo.
Per the quote above is it possible the Fire Chief by mandate means, for Mutual Aid purposes they need to use mototurbo also?
 

iamhere300

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Mutual aid channels should be analog....

Tell him to remember also, HYT, Tait, Vertex, and I believe others are now selling radios that will work on a TURBO system. He is NOT tied to Motorola
 

W2NJS

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Steve,

Be careful. People in authority don't like to be contradicted, and if they're non-techies their eyes glaze over quickly when you try to explain something technical to them. You can find a number of "official" posts online that tell the true story about narrowbanding in simple terms, and your brother might do well to have something like that in hand if or when he reopens the subject with his chief.
 

vinzep491

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Look - I'm a fan of the mototrbo platform and features... But I got to say, this ticks me off. It's not just the TRBO salesmen, but even with p25 and Opensky...

Everyone seems to want to take advantage of the narrowbanding situation and abuse it to the people not so tech savy..
 

btritch

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There is NO mandate for MotoTURBO, NexEDGE, OR Opensky.....The ONLY mandate currently in place is for Narrowband....There is nothing that says you have to digital or to turbo, egde, or sky.. only narrowband.. I figure it's probably coming but not as of now.. I asked the local county radio technician about it yesterday myself to be sure.
 

rxbob

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Somebody is confused down there

Agreed that most of the systems down there are Mototrbo but is it getting that way everywhere in SE Arkansas, as I mentioned in this forum befere, but I sure that somebody just got their terminology mixed up. Chicot County uses the same Motorola dealer I do and they are not pushing Mototrbo as a mandate at least not to the fire department I chief. But they know I dabble in this stuff as a hobby and that we're broke. I did have a salesman from another dealer tell me there was mandate to go digital in 2017.
 

W2NJS

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From all of the above postings, as well as from all the other posts we've all read, it certainly becomes clear that there is a pattern of pure BS being peddled by dealers. Question is what can be done about it. We need someone with guts to publish a story in one or more professional journals with a title something like "What You Must Know About Narrowbanding Before You Buy Anything."

Or am I just dreaming?
 

JRayfield

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Here's a link to an attorney's website that discusses the narrowbanding mandate. I personally know this attorney and he is the only attorney, who practices in the Land Mobile Radio industry, with whom I have complete confidence. I've used his services for many years.

NarrowbandingLaw

I get nothing from 'promoting' his sight, or him, I just think that he's the best 'source' for accurate information regarding FCC rules that anyone can find.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma


From all of the above postings, as well as from all the other posts we've all read, it certainly becomes clear that there is a pattern of pure BS being peddled by dealers. Question is what can be done about it. We need someone with guts to publish a story in one or more professional journals with a title something like "What You Must Know About Narrowbanding Before You Buy Anything."

Or am I just dreaming?
 

JRayfield

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Actually, there is a requirement for certain systems to be operating at 6.25 khz, or equivalent, by Jan. 1, 2017. This is for FCC Part 90 Public Safety 700 MHz systems. That may be where this date came from, but it doesn't apply to anything else, other than 700 mhz systems.

The FCC specifically refrained from setting a 'mandated date' for moving to 6.25 khz or equivalent bandwidth, when they put out a letter on this subject, about a year or two ago. However, they did 'encourage' anyone who was replacing equipment, for the purpose of meeting the narrowband mandate, to seriously consider 'skipping' 12.5 khz narrowband and move directly to 6.25 khz or equivalent.

Considering the Jan.1 2017 deadline for 700 mhz to be operating at 6.25 khz or equivalent, and considering the FCC's 'encouragement' to move to 6.25 khz or equivalent and 'skip' moving to 12.5 khz, this would tend to indicate that the FCC is likely to require everyone to move to 6.25 khz at some time in the future. But to set a date is simply not possible. Personally, I would probably agree with the person who suggested a time period of 7 to 12 years, but that is purely speculation, based on the facts that we do have (which aren't much to go on). I suspect that any new equipment that is purchased now, will need to be replaced, due to just being 'worn out', by the time the FCC would require another bandwidth change.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Mine mentioned that too but said it was 7-12 years out, didn't have an exact year yet but said a digital mandate was coming after the narrowbanding was complete.
 

W2NJS

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John,

Thanks for the Shulman Rogers reference; it will come in handy in the future. I believe that if the FCC did any further narrowbanding requirement in the near term that they'd have a full scale revolution on their hands, so it's not likely to happen.

Apropos of nothing, have you seen the ARRL notes about discussions going on at WARC about amateurs getting new UHF frequencies in the 470 mHz area? It just appeared in QST for February.

Regards,

Tom, W2NJS
 

JRayfield

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I think you're right about a 'revolution' if the FCC tried to mandate 6.25 khz anytime soon. However, I've learned (the hard way) the FCC can do anything that they want to do, no matter what. I owned over 30 800 mhz SMR channels back in the mid to late 80's and up until 1999. Back when Nextel, then known as Powerfone, was starting to put together their 'plan' for use of the 800 mhz spectrum for a 'cellular-like' network, I commented to my father that this would never happen. There were FCC rules that clearly would 'block' the execution of their 'plan'.

But that didn't stop them.

They got waivers of those rules, and then eventually, got the rules changed to allow them to do what they wanted to do. As time went on, the FCC started looking at auctioning spectrum. Again, it didn't look too promising for those who wanted that (such as Nextel (Powerfone had changed their name by then)), but then on a Friday, the FCC released a rather 'thick' document (I think it was around 100 pages or so) covering all kinds of things that they'd been working on. Then they went on a 2 week vacation (all of the FCC commissioners, all at once). Buried, in the middle of that document, was a single sentence that 'froze' all licensing of 800 mhz SMR spectrum (the spectrum that we were using), effective immediately. No one could license anything new (like to add sites to your system, or even to add new channels to a system).

We realized that this was in preparation for auctioning the 800 mhz SMR spectrum and the auction plans of the FCC were going to go forward, no matter what anyone else wanted otherwise. Of course, Nextel won 80% of the spectrum that was still available in the 800 mhz band, and they ended up buying most of the rest of it. It completely shut down almost the entire 800 mhz SMR 'business world'. Thousands of businesses, all over the U.S., who had been using SMR radio service and spending around $15 to $25 per month per mobile for service, within 1 to 5 years were having to pay $50 per month per 'radio' on Nextel's new system.

And I never thought that it could happen, because the FCC rules wouldn't allow it. Yeah.....right.....

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

John,

Thanks for the Shulman Rogers reference; it will come in handy in the future. I believe that if the FCC did any further narrowbanding requirement in the near term that they'd have a full scale revolution on their hands, so it's not likely to happen.

Apropos of nothing, have you seen the ARRL notes about discussions going on at WARC about amateurs getting new UHF frequencies in the 470 mHz area? It just appeared in QST for February.

Regards,

Tom, W2NJS
 

davidgcet

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i can tell you this, your brother's department is NOT using the closest dealer to them. because i know for a fact that the closest dealer NEVER pushes TRBO unless the customer wants/needs the digital features. ;)
 

RadioDitch

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I did have a salesman from another dealer tell me there was mandate to go digital in 2017.
That's actually a real mandate...if you're on the railroad. And at that, it's something the AAR (American Association of Railroads) cooked up for a required move to 6.25kHz NXDN (aka IDAS) protocol digital, not the FCC. Even though the FCC did encourage it. There's no such thing for public safety at this time AFAIK, other than the 700MHz deal.
 
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rxbob

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i can tell you this, your brother's department is NOT using the closest dealer to them. because i know for a fact that the closest dealer NEVER pushes TRBO unless the customer wants/needs the digital features. ;)
Is this closest dealer in Chicot County?
 
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