Motorcycle Communications using FRS GMRS frequencies

[ajsnelson]

Hi
I’m a newbie to this forum and have been only been around frs gmrs radios for a few years now and I have a number of questions I’m certain that the folks on this forum can answer. I think first it would be best to lay out the scenario in which raises my questions
I use an ICOM F21 uhf transceiver as my means of communicating with a number of my friends on our motorcycles. When I purchased the ICOM F21 uhf transceiver I was told that it was set up to transmit at 4 watts. In addition it was suggested that I install an antenna that was in a location on my motorcycle that was away from the mass of the motorcycle and as high as I could get it. (I did that and it became quite obvious to the others in my group that the power of my radio and antenna location was what gave me the best transmission and reception of anyone in my riding group. The ICOM F21 uhf transceiver is powered from my mc with a noise filter installed as well. The ICOM F21 uhf transceiver is used in conjunction with an Autocom L-1 motorcycle communication system that also allows input from a GPS, radar detector, iPod and phone all of which is transmitted to a headset (speakers and microphone) installed in my helmet.
The riders in my group use a variety of motorcycle communication system ranging from J&M systems to Chatterbox systems etc
The Chatterbox system which has the ability to do all of the things that the Autocom and J&M communication system can do and it has a built in FRS GMRS transceiver and supposedly has the ability to transmit at 5 watts
The riders that use the other communications systems use the cheaper blister pack radios which I understand transmit at about .5 watts and can use FRS channels 1 thru 14.
When my radio is set on a channel 1 thru 7, I assume I am transmitting at 4 watts using a GMRS frequency which requires a license. Is that correct?
We typically use channel 7,since it appears that when the blister pack radios are in the mix that is the only channel that all of the radios in the group can communicate over. When the blister packs are out of the mix leaving only the Chatterbox and the better radio we can use channel 14. When we do that I believe we are using FRS channels only. Since I have the 4 watt capability and have made no changes I assume that I am transmitting on FRS channels at a higher power. Do I understand this correctly? If so is that legal?
Also, in order for us to be able to get better overall communications would it be advisable for everyone to use a GMRS frequency at a higher power and acquire the appropriate license?
Any info or opinion you can offer on this matter would be a big help in getting a fundamental understanding of this matter.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2338; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)

I'm not familiar with your radio. I can say, however, that any power greater than 0.5 watts ERP (transmitter power output - coax cable losses + antenna gain = ERP) on channels 1-7 requires a GMRS license.
A license will allow you to use up to 5 watts ERP on channels 1-7. (To my knowledge, UHF handhelds top out at 4 watts transmitted power output. I'm not aware of any UHF handheld model that does 5 watts TPO. Attaching it to an antenna other than the stock duckie, may affect the ERP.)
Any power greater than 0.5 watts ERP on channels 8-14 is prohibited, regardless of license.
Lastly, if everyone acquired their own license and used the GMRS channels, you would most likely find your range and clarity to be greater than any of the bubble packs provide.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Just adding an external antenna can make a huge difference. There are a lot of high gain, UHF commercial antennas out there. If you were looking for something with more wheaties, Motorola Spectra's used to have a motorcycle head/mic but I don't know how they were approved for type acceptance or whatnot.

I know Yaesu makes a small dual bander (FT-10M) designed for motorcycles, UTV's, Jeeps, etc but it is only a ham radio last I checked.

 

[SquierStrat]

FRS/GMRS combined channel chart - The RadioReference Wiki

This chart might be useful to you.

 

[SCPD]

Hi
I’m a newbie to this forum and have been only been around frs gmrs radios for a few years now and I have a number of questions I’m certain that the folks on this forum can answer. I think first it would be best to lay out the scenario in which raises my questions
I use an ICOM F21 uhf transceiver as my means of communicating with a number of my friends on our motorcycles. When I purchased the ICOM F21 uhf transceiver I was told that it was set up to transmit at 4 watts. In addition it was suggested that I install an antenna that was in a location on my motorcycle that was away from the mass of the motorcycle and as high as I could get it. (I did that and it became quite obvious to the others in my group that the power of my radio and antenna location was what gave me the best transmission and reception of anyone in my riding group. The ICOM F21 uhf transceiver is powered from my mc with a noise filter installed as well. The ICOM F21 uhf transceiver is used in conjunction with an Autocom L-1 motorcycle communication system that also allows input from a GPS, radar detector, iPod and phone all of which is transmitted to a headset (speakers and microphone) installed in my helmet.
The riders in my group use a variety of motorcycle communication system ranging from J&M systems to Chatterbox systems etc
The Chatterbox system which has the ability to do all of the things that the Autocom and J&M communication system can do and it has a built in FRS GMRS transceiver and supposedly has the ability to transmit at 5 watts
The riders that use the other communications systems use the cheaper blister pack radios which I understand transmit at about .5 watts and can use FRS channels 1 thru 14.
When my radio is set on a channel 1 thru 7, I assume I am transmitting at 4 watts using a GMRS frequency which requires a license. Is that correct?
We typically use channel 7,since it appears that when the blister pack radios are in the mix that is the only channel that all of the radios in the group can communicate over. When the blister packs are out of the mix leaving only the Chatterbox and the better radio we can use channel 14. When we do that I believe we are using FRS channels only. Since I have the 4 watt capability and have made no changes I assume that I am transmitting on FRS channels at a higher power. Do I understand this correctly? If so is that legal?
Also, in order for us to be able to get better overall communications would it be advisable for everyone to use a GMRS frequency at a higher power and acquire the appropriate license?
Any info or opinion you can offer on this matter would be a big help in getting a fundamental understanding of this matter.

Channels 8-14 running over .5 watts is illegal no matter what and using a external antenna on those is illegal also.I have several ICOM f21 radio and they a factory 4 watts and also FCC part 95 certified so great choice there.I have a few suggestions for you and your group if you like to get a blanket license and use a VHF frequency.

 

[ajsnelson]

Motorcycle Communications using FRS GMRS frequencies

Thanks to all for the input. Very helpful ! I will pass the info along to my friends, especially the info regarding the license requirements.and the group license There are now 4 of us with the Icom F21 radio. That unit is a pretty rock steady radio available at a reasonable price . It is capable of 4 watts of output so and appears to fit the bill for us. .The group will have them programmed by an Icom dealer so that we can be assured of the most efficient and legal usage of this radio.

Also the info on antenna was helpful
Most likely will be back with a few more ?'s

Thanks
Alan

 

[ajsnelson]

Motorcycle Communications using FRS GMRS frequencies

I am somewhat confused with regard to the sharing of frequencies between FRS and GMRS capable radios.

No. Frequency GMRS GMRS Max Ouput FRS FRS Max Output Usage/Notes
01 462.5625 X 5 W X 500 mW Unofficial national calling channel
02 462.5875 X 5 W X 500 mW
03 462.6125 X 5 W X 500 mW
04 462.6375 X 5 W X 500 mW
05 462.6625 X 5 W X 500 mW
06 462.6875 X 5 W X 500 mW
07 462.7125 X 5 W X 500 mW
08 467.5625 X 500 mW
09 467.5875 X 500 mW
10 467.6125 X 500 mW
11 467.6375 X 500 mW
12 467.6625 X 500 mW
13 467.6875 X 500 mW
14 467.7125 X 500 mW
15 462.5500 X 50 W
16 462.5750 X 50 W

My Icom F21 radio was purchased from a reputable Icom dealer. As mentioned earlier it is heads and shoulders above the blister pack lot. I am under the impression that this Icom F21 radio (capable of a 4 watt output) was programed to do so while using channels 1 thru 7.

What I am not clear on is channels 8 thru 14. Is it most likely that when this radio was programmed by the dealer that it was programmed to output 0.5 watts when I use channels 8 thru 14?

Finally, with regard to channels 15 and 16, is it safe to assume that it would be advantageous to have those programmed at the max capability of the Icom F21 (4 watts) so that we could use those channels among the radios with the capability of transceiving at the assigned frequencies?

Thanks for any input or information
Alan

 

[Darth_vader]

Okay; licence-free FRS can only be worked at 1/2 watt on all 14 channels. Licenceful GMRS is capped at 5 watts on 1-7 and 50 watts on 15-22.

FRS-GMRS combination transceivers like blister packs can be (and often are) sold programmed to work power levels higher than 1/2 watt on 1-7, but not more than 5 watts...

But a compliant 14-channel FRS-only rig is limited to 1/2 watt on all channels, period.

This may all become a moot point in the coming years, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

On the other hand, you could just forget all that and go with licence-free MURS. 2 watts on 151/154 MHz is helped along by the advantageous propagation characteristics of VHF compared to 460 MHz UHF (if reaching distant stations is desired.) Or CB, which has even better propagation characteristics and a maximum output of 4 watts (if I recall correctly), but usually requires significantly bulkier equipment to get the most benefit from it.

"Is it most likely that when this radio was programmed by the dealer that it was programmed to output 0.5 watts when I use channels 8 thru 14?"

I would hope so, since that's the established legal power limit for those frequencies.

"Finally, with regard to channels 15 and 16, is it safe to assume that it would be advantageous to have those programmed at the max capability of the Icom F21 (4 watts) so that we could use those channels among the radios with the capability of transceiving at the assigned frequencies?"

Maybe; maybe not. If you have your GMRS ticket and the radio's in compliance, you might as well, although it won't put you at any advantage and will really only run your battery down faster if you're running four watts and the guy you're talking to is, say, 100 feet away from you. Depends on what your needs are (e.g. if you want/need to transmit any considerable distance) and under what conditions it's going to be used when transmitting (e.g. rocky/hilly/heavily forested terrain; areas prone to inclement weather, etc.) See also what I said above regarding propagation.

The Columbia River Gorge, particularly the stretch on the west side of the Cascades, is a good (read: excellent) proving ground for this kind of stuff!

 

[ajsnelson]

Motorcycle Communications using FRS GMRS frequencies

Thanks for the clear reply regarding channels 1 thru 7 and 15 thru 22. The riders with the Icom F21 will comply with FCC licensing requirements. Getting all of the guys to this point has been a lengthy project and has taken a lot of convincing as to “why I should abandon my perfectly good $40 radio”. So we’ll stick with the 4 watt GMRS scheme.
I would agree with you regarding the likelihood of the programming on channels 8 thru 14 to a 0.5 watt output.
With regard to channels 15 thru 22, the Icom F21 will adjust to just 16 channels. So we’ll use 15 and 16 at the available 4 watts
WRT battery life and using 4 watts of power even at close range, that is not an issue. The radios are powered from the motorcycle and it is imperative that they be able to transmit with all the power available as the group could easily and quickly get spread apart on winding, mountainous and forested terrain. This is the whole intent of the upgrades from the blister packs. We wanted to get the best performance for this application using a set it and forget it approach.
Your knowledgeable replies have been very helpful in understanding this issue.
Best
Alan

 

[Darth_vader]

You're welcome.

Personally, I'd strongly consider taking them back in and having them reprogrammed for 1-7 and 15-22, as this radio's probably too non-compliant to legally work 8-14 unless you plan to only use it to monitor those channels. That way you'll have access to the entire GMRS frequency bank, in case 1-7, 15 and 16 become too noisy or congested to use.

With standardised PL tone 141.3 Hz (code 22 in Motorola notation), 20/675 is also supposed to serve as a de facto nationwide highway emergency calling/hailling frequency (the GMRS equivalent of channel 9 on the CB radio.) It would probably be of everybody's benefit to have access to that channel. If the ICOM can be set up for frequency splits (for repeaters), programming the extra memory channel for 462.675 rx/467 tx with the PL tone in addition to the simplex frequencies might also be a good idea. (15-22 can be used for repeater work with +5 MHz split in addition to regular simplex. Receive on 462 MHz and transmit on 467.)

"The radios are powered from the motorcycle and it is imperative that they be able to transmit with all the power available as the group could easily and quickly get spread apart on winding, mountainous and forested terrain."

So if you'll be running it off the alternator the whole time, then yeah, I'd say go for it.

 

[ajsnelson]

Motorcycle Communications using FRS GMRS frequencies

I plan to take my radio to the Icom dealer as well when my friends take theirs in. We want them all programmed alike and capable of monitoring or hailing the emergency channel

I'll show him this info.

Also I'm sure he can advise us on the licensing process as well

Our objective here is to have a tthe best comms system for the smallest dollar amount with very little messing around with the radios as possible. We like the idea of turning on the ignition of the motorcycle to energize the comms system plug in your helmet and hopefully never touch it other than using the push to talk!
I think we are close

Again thanks

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I plan to take my radio to the Icom dealer as well when my friends take theirs in. We want them all programmed alike and capable of monitoring or hailing the emergency channel

I'll show him this info.

Also I'm sure he can advise us on the licensing process as well

Our objective here is to have a tthe best comms system for the smallest dollar amount with very little messing around with the radios as possible. We like the idea of turning on the ignition of the motorcycle to energize the comms system plug in your helmet and hopefully never touch it other than using the push to talk!
I think we are close

Again thanks

Licensing is easy. Just apply at the FCC ULS. I'd advise you have your Icom dealer program one of the side buttons for Talk Around and then just program in the splits. That is the one thing I hate about the F21GM…can't overwrite the programming in it to allow for an accessory button to be used as TA. Oh well, could be like a GP300 and not even have TA capability.

There is a VOX box out there that would disable a need for you to hit the PTT to key the radio.

 

[ajsnelson]

Motorcycle Communications using FRS GMRS frequencies

I'll take your advice and have our Icom guy lead us to the FCC. With regard to the Talk Around feature.I don't think we'll need it even though I' do not know what that is. Also the radio will be buried in my tank bag on my motorcycle( as will the others ) we have no opportunity to get to it. The radios are used in conjunction with a communication hub. We all choose to use a PTT button on our handle bars when we want to transmit.VOX has been problematic due to the inherent background noise in a helmet or one because one or more of the guys might be singing or moaning about a slow driver in front of us. The communication over the radio is rather minimal. No chit chatl but very important in that in many cases we may not be in sight of one another and since we are very mobile it is possible to put close to a mile between us in a very short time.

Thanks and Best
Alan

 

[SCPD]

I'll take your advice and have our Icom guy lead us to the FCC. With regard to the Talk Around feature.I don't think we'll need it even though I' do not know what that is. Also the radio will be buried in my tank bag on my motorcycle( as will the others ) we have no opportunity to get to it. The radios are used in conjunction with a communication hub. We all choose to use a PTT button on our handle bars when we want to transmit.VOX has been problematic due to the inherent background noise in a helmet or one because one or more of the guys might be singing or moaning about a slow driver in front of us. The communication over the radio is rather minimal. No chit chatl but very important in that in many cases we may not be in sight of one another and since we are very mobile it is possible to put close to a mile between us in a very short time.

Thanks and Best
Alan

Sir,
You will need the talk around function so you will be able to talk directly to one another on the road in close proximity.Talk around or simplex as it is called also is the same as the bubble packs where you communicate directly with each other without going through a repeater,I believe that is what you are doing now,what the other poster was suggesting is you have all the repeater splits put into the F-21 and using one of the side buttons to place the radios in the talk around mode.

Having all your group licensed opens up the opportunity to use repeaters all over the country with the owners permission of course.It will come in handy in case something happens on the road and a repeater is located in the area and you have no cell service.

If someone else would like to help this gentleman in describing repeaters and talk around feel more than welcome,it's late sprained my ankle, my meds have kicked in and I know I have left out something important I know...William

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2338; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)

Talk-Around
Simplex
Direct
Car-to-Car (or Bike-to-Bike, in this case)
All mean that you are transmitting and receiving on the same frequency (for example, 462.6750). Repeater operation means that you transmit on one frequency and receive on another frequency. For example, transmit on 467.6750 and receive on 462.6750, whereas the repeater you are talking through receives on 467.6750 and transmits on 462.6750.
In most cases, (probably 99% of the time) you'll be using talk-around, since you'll be within a mile or so of each other. And this can be accomplished on any of the 15 GMRS channels.
The only time you should need the use of a repeater, is if once you've arrived at your destination, some members of your group want to go see one attraction, and another group wants to see a second attraction, but you still want to maintain communications with each other, at least while you're riding to/from your respective attractions. Assuming, of course, there's an available repeater in the area, and you're able to secure permission from the owner to use it.

 

[WQRY843]

group communications

This it the same situation that I'm working with. very good information, thanks everyone. Being a complete noob to all of this i purchased a pair of radios that i was lead to believe would work only to discover that they aren't certified. Now im looking at these radios Powerwerx GU-16 GMRS does anyone have any experience with them.

Thanks,

 

[ajsnelson]

Thanks for the info on the Talk-Around, Simplex Bike-to-Bike info.To be truthful a lot of this is over my head at this time, however when I go to the Icom radio guy I'll be prepared to ask him about the info provided here. Especially regarding the repeater usage.
Again thanks for the help
Alan

 

[Project25_MASTR]

This it the same situation that I'm working with. very good information, thanks everyone. Being a complete noob to all of this i purchased a pair of radios that i was lead to believe would work only to discover that they aren't certified. Now im looking at these radios Powerwerx GU-16 GMRS does anyone have any experience with them.

Thanks,

The radios will probably work, but they just aren't certified. Out of curiosity, what radios did you get?

 

[SCPD]

The radios will probably work, but they just aren't certified. Out of curiosity, what radios did you get?

From the FCC website regarding the Powerwerx GU-16

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/tcb/repo...ode=&application_id=325474&fcc_id=WVTWOUXUN08

Here is the actual Powerwerx radio

Powerwerx GU-16 GMRS Handheld Radio [GU-16 GMRS] - $99.99

 

[SCPD]

Thanks for the info on the Talk-Around, Simplex Bike-to-Bike info.To be truthful a lot of this is over my head at this time, however when I go to the Icom radio guy I'll be prepared to ask him about the info provided here. Especially regarding the repeater usage.
Again thanks for the help
Alan

Alan,

Regarding the use of repeaters,repeaters are private property and usually require permission from the owner(s) before use or out of courtesy .That is why I mention permission earlier.I do not know without looking back if you are licensed yet or not,if so I would like to invite you to visit myGMRS.com - GMRS Repeater Directory and become a member.We have a good bit of information available regarding GMRS and include a member submitted repeater directory.

While the repeater listings do not show all the GMRS repeaters in the US it does show the one who are member of the site and have listed their repeaters,you are more than welcome to check it out and maybe it will help...William