Motorola losing customers?

[noderaser]

There is a local dealer who I've worked with for some service and site survey needs. We typically use a gov "intermediary" who takes care of a lot of the paperwork for the accounting side of things, though; they might be able to get us samples as well. We went through them on our last order of Moto portables last year, and they actually got us a pretty good turn around (less than three months) for APX 8000 and SRX 2200, compared to what I've heard from other vendors/distributors.

The biggest obstacle is always funding, we have to beg for pennies and get racked & stacked with all our other operational budget needs. And of course, right now there's exactly $0.00

 

[WB5UOM]

If he would say where he is, my MR is wonderful and has a pretty big area.
If he only needed a system key, there is a form that he as owner would fill out and sign, or if a auth. programing user then same form had to be fill out by owner and sent to EFJ Irving.

 

[TampaTyron]

Here in AZ, we had a terrible Kenwood MR for several years. Kenwood saw their numbers tanking. Now, with a new rep who is very technical, social, and not a radio elitist, their numbers are climbing again.

Dealers are cross sections of the population. 10% are terrible, 80% are marginal, 10% are amazing (I am a dealer for Moto and KW).

TT

 

[noderaser]

If he would say where he is, my MR is wonderful and has a pretty big area.
If he only needed a system key, there is a form that he as owner would fill out and sign, or if a auth. programing user then same form had to be fill out by owner and sent to EFJ Irving.

Another LIMFAC for us, is that for any purchase over $10k on the commercial market, we have to go through our contracting office, submit competing quotes, and wait out the bureaucracy. Our "go between" (Noble) does the comparative bidding/research for us, and is then able to submit the paperwork to make it like a .gov internal purchase. That also allows us to tap into a different source of funds, when we get it. So, if a vendor gives me samples expecting that we'll buy things from them, there's no guarantee that we'll be allowed to even if we want to.

I'm hoping that I can get out to IWCE next year, to put hands-on with some of the vendor products and use that as a basis to do further research and request samples from Noble.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Another LIMFAC for us, is that for any purchase over $10k on the commercial market, we have to go through our contracting office, submit competing quotes, and wait out the bureaucracy. Our "go between" (Noble) does the comparative bidding/research for us, and is then able to submit the paperwork to make it like a .gov internal purchase. That also allows us to tap into a different source of funds, when we get it. So, if a vendor gives me samples expecting that we'll buy things from them, there's no guarantee that we'll be allowed to even if we want to.

I'm hoping that I can get out to IWCE next year, to put hands-on with some of the vendor products and use that as a basis to do further research and request samples from Noble.

If you are specifically working with P25 radios...APCO is a better show to go to. It's in San Antonio this upcoming year.

 

[MTS2000des]

APCO is where the real LMR vendors are. IWCE has become nothing but Chinese spy/junk peddlers.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Covid seemed to cut down on the importers, don't see as many booths. Informa has some new folks running IWCE for 2026, I'm in contract negotiations to teach again.

 

[mmckenna]

Covid seemed to cut down on the importers, don't see as many booths. Informa has some new folks running IWCE for 2026, I'm in contract negotiations to teach again.

It really shrunk after that, and the last time I went it was pretty disappointing. Used to be I could spend 2 days there just walking around the floor. Last time I was done in 1/2 a day. Not sure I'll go next year unless they really figure out a way to get people back.
I am cleared for APCO next year, and that's always worth it.

 

[Giddyuptd]

I’m curious to see how this plays out because of cost and how encryption can affect interoperability.

How so? Various Motorola, Kenwood, other models in use using aes256, and other capable of ADP have no issue working with another. Only issue one would have is key management and working with other agencies on being on same page. That does exist but that is a bigger issue and problem than the radios going on and people need to be removed and replaced.

For EFJ/Kenwood, should just be a matter of ordering a system key, software, cables, and radios from them (probably via the manufacturer's rep in your area). They might comp some or all of that to get you interested. Where are you?

I know with EFJ Kenwood make sure you order anything you need initially cause from where I'm sitting it's a act of Christ to get a basic feature added. This is indeed playing decision making for next year with a large grant and I'm leaning to Motorola over it which was able to get a flash my way no issues or delays within a couple business days. EFJ I don't know what's going on. Id suspect it isn't the dealers but EFJ themselves delaying things.

 

[AM909]

... I know with EFJ Kenwood make sure you order anything you need initially cause from where I'm sitting it's a act of Christ to get a basic feature added. This is indeed playing decision making for next year with a large grant and I'm leaning to Motorola over it which was able to get a flash my way no issues or delays within a couple business days. EFJ I don't know what's going on. Id suspect it isn't the dealers but EFJ themselves delaying things.

This has been a really challenging year for EFJ/JVCK, with some corporate/product re-organization, a new ERP/CRM/whatever system migration that didn't go as planned (no surprise there – these never do), and the tariff-caused supply-chain changes tossed in the middle, causing lots of mistakes and delays. They're not alone, either. We had one agency that has both Moto and Kenwood subs tell us over the summer that they considered going to Motorola for new multi-band subs but had been waiting for a demo radio from them for many months. I imagine those stories are out there for the other big guys at various times, too, depending on the size of the agency, time of year, winds, etc..

 

[12dbsinad]

This has been a really challenging year for EFJ/JVCK, with some corporate/product re-organization, a new ERP/CRM/whatever system migration that didn't go as planned (no surprise there – these never do), and the tariff-caused supply-chain changes tossed in the middle, causing lots of mistakes and delays. They're not alone, either. We had one agency that has both Moto and Kenwood subs tell us over the summer that they considered going to Motorola for new multi-band subs but had been waiting for a demo radio from them for many months. I imagine those stories are out there for the other big guys at various times, too, depending on the size of the agency, time of year, winds, etc..

Besides the internal software issue, I believe Kenwood stuck a fork in themselves as part of this whole restructure. People need to understand that EFJ and JVCK are still 2 different companies.

 

[wa8pyr]

AES 256 requires use of a KVL to load keys. You won't ever be able to load AES via CPS.

Actually not quite correct. Tait radios allow loading the key through CPS with the single-key AES feature, but you’d better keep that key written down and stored securely. Once the key is in the radio, it cannot be read with CPS, nor can it be cloned from one radio to another. Doesn’t save in the codeplug file, either.

That’s how Tait was able to meet FIPS standards for key security when loading with CPS.

Worked great on the few Tait radios we had when I retired, but key management was a pain; anytime you had to make programming changes you had to re-enter the key in CPS.

 

[speedway_navigator]

and the last time I went it was pretty disappointing.

Hopefully that wasn't because you met me that trip...

 

[speedway_navigator]

A consultant I work with said Motorola was proposing a $10 million system for 5 sites with 4 voice channels each but there is a $1 million discount if they buy before the end of the year, operators are standing by.
He figures about half for JVC Kenwood or L3 Harris.

He looked at SEC filings for the big 3, figures you know who is about 50% gross margin on equipment, mid 30s for the others.

 

[speedway_navigator]

from my consulting buddy

For example, the APX6000 unit, generally sells for $3,400. None of my clients have ever paid over $2,000 for the APX6000 unit. In the UK, the APX6000 was sold for $995 at the same time it was sold in the US for $3,400.

 

[mmckenna]

from my consulting buddy

Yeah 30-40% off list is pretty common if you are under a large contract. Keeping in mind that even with the steep discounts, manufacturers, dealers, etc. are all still making a healthy profit. We have a guy at work that used to work for Cisco. He says the profit margin on the high tier equipment is usually something around 90%. They can afford discounts if they want. Just depends on how hard they want to compete.