Motorola noob seeks direction.

[HandiScratchy]

If you're easily annoyed by ignorance please don't read further, this thread won't be good for your blood pressure.

I would like to try a Motorola p25 HT. I am a simple ham. I want to do ham things with this radio including some rough use I wouldn't trust my hobby radios to survive. I'm not trying to get keys or set it up as a public service scanner. I just want to do repeaters and simplex in digital and analog modes.
I am primarily looking at XTS models due to cost so maybe a lot of my concerns don't apply to such old hardware.

Can the 700-800MHz XTS radios get up to 928MHz? I think the answer is yes but you need a cracked cps.
Are all XTS models with keyboards FPP capable?
Did any models besides the APX have a secondary top frequency display? I really like that feature.
Is there a guide to buying a Motorola radio on eBay? I don't want to get into a shady situation where I can't make changes later because the features aren't licensed correctly etc.
Do sellers somehow add FPP in an illegitimate way? A post here seemed to indicate that it was possible to buy a radio with FPP then later have that revoked because it wasn’t originally provisioned. That post went further saying even if the feature was added legitimately by the original owner after the radio was delivered, it might still be revoked if the ht were ever returned for service. Is this true? If so, is it common?
Are all the XTS programs obsolete and only available bootleg now?
If FPP and CPS aren't really possible does anyone have a recommendation for a ham friendly shop in Charlotte or Rock Hill, SC for programming?

After all that maybe you think I would be better off buying a Harris, BK or EF Johnson instead. Let me know.

 

[K2NEC]

Can the 700-800MHz XTS radios get up to 928MHz?

No, you would need a 900mhz XTS, THEN it can be modded to the ham bands

Are all XTS models with keyboards FPP capable?

Only if they are model 3 and have FPP in the flashcode

Did any models besides the APX have a secondary top frequency display? I really like that feature.

Negative

Is there a guide to buying a Motorola radio on eBay? I don't want to get into a shady situation where I can't make changes later because the features aren't licensed correctly etc.

Buy the seller not the radio. If it seems suspicious, it probably is.

Do sellers somehow add FPP in an illegitimate way? A post here seemed to indicate that it was possible to buy a radio with FPP then later have that revoked because it wasn’t originally provisioned. That post went further saying even if the feature was added legitimately by the original owner after the radio was delivered, it might still be revoked if the ht were ever returned for service. Is this true? If so, is it common?

FPP can be added with the use of a software not mentioned on this website. I'll leave this here. I'm sure someone will be willing to discuss further in a PM.

Are all the XTS programs obsolete and only available bootleg now?

For the most part, yes

After all that maybe you think I would be better off buying a Harris, BK or EF Johnson instead. Let me know.

As someone that owns a few Harris radios, they are very much NOT ham friendly. I'd avoid if possible.

 

[HandiScratchy]

Thanks K2NEC.
Very helpful info. Especially the FPP model 3 bit.

 

[N4KVE]

There is a special hack required to get FPP to work in the 900 ham band. No “special” CPS needed, just an extra hex edit. Otherwise it will just be FPP in the 900 commercial band. And only the XTS2500 will do 900. The 5000 will not.

 

[KG4INW]

And only Astro 25 portables can do FPP at all. The older XTS3000 (part of the original Astro series) isn't capable. Motorola no longer officially supports any XTS radio (Astro or Astro 25). Sending one in for repair with features not paid for are what those older warnings (about losing features) are referring to but it's a moot point since the depot won't touch them anymore.

Be aware though that the XTS3000 uses one software package while all of the newer Astro 25 radios (5000, 2500, 1500, etc.) use a separate one. Programming cable is also different between the two series. Astro 25 is generally preferred due to better features, firmware, easy USB programming, the software runs fine with a 64 bit OS, along with other pluses I'm surely forgetting.

 

[wa8pyr]

As someone that owns a few Harris radios, they are very much NOT ham friendly. I'd avoid if possible.

I would respectfully disagree with that. It's just a different way of doing things. I have both Harris and Motorola radios for ham use, and they all work great once you get used to them. The learning curve for Harris isn't any greater than that for Motorola if you've never really used either one a great deal.

It's all very much a matter of personal opinion.

 

[mmckenna]

As someone that owns a few Harris radios, they are very much NOT ham friendly. I'd avoid if possible.

I would respectfully disagree with that. It's just a different way of doing things. I have both Harris and Motorola radios for ham use, and they all work great once you get used to them. The learning curve for Harris isn't any greater than that for Motorola if you've never really used either one a great deal.

It's all very much a matter of personal opinion.

I think he may have been suggesting that Harris/Harris vendors are not ham friendly. Getting wide band enabled isn't easy for individuals. Harris/Vendors require some documentation, and generally only will help if you have purchased radios from them. Buying use Harris radios off e-Bay usually results in frustration.

Motorola, depending on the radio/vintage, is a bit easier.

I run both Harris and Motorola gear at work and for my own personal ham use. Both do work fine.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Taking all warnings, cautions, and caveats into consideration, I will simply state that my personal choice for radios for use in the amateur radio service is Motorola. The XTS5000 is a superb radio, and honestly not that hard to program if you have the software and cables. You can obtain aftermarket USB cables for programming cheaply enough. Motorola no longer cares about the XTS software, and won't go after anybody who's giving away a copy. But actually I get more use out of my trusty old Astro Saber than I do my XTS5000, simply because I like the ergonomics of it better and to me it is the most iconic of all two way portable radios.

As for adding features like FPP, there are people selling radios and upgrades on ebay that will do it for you, and I make no comment as to whether or not it's legal. They can do it. Deal with them if you wish.

I recommend setting up at least two zones of 16 channels each for FPP usage. 32 FPP channels in addition to whatever number of fixed channels should be sufficient for most purposes. Or maybe you want more FPP channels. Just ask the guy who programs it to set it up that way.

Now about the feature known as voice announcement on the XTS and newer radios. It's cool once, Interesting for the next few times you use it, and annoying after you've heard the radio announcing channel names a dozen times. I say to just not bother with it. It's useful if you have to change channels while being unable to see the radio, but for everybody else, don't bother.

 

[mmckenna]

Now about the feature known as voice announcement on the XTS and newer radios. It's cool once, Interesting for the next few times you use it, and annoying after you've heard the radio announcing channel names a dozen times. I say to just not bother with it. It's useful if you have to change channels while being unable to see the radio, but for everybody else, don't bother.

Amen.

Tried it for a few days, shut it off. It has it's place, but it's not here with me.

 

[jaspence]

Not Motorola and not sure about availability today, but I have 2 EFJohnson 5100 series 900 HTs that have FPP. Even the model without a full keypad had FPP. The repeater has been off a couple of years, but just tried both radios and both work.

 

[wa8pyr]

Amen.

Tried it for a few days, shut it off. It has it's place, but it's not here with me.

If (big if) I use announcement, it's for zone names only. I worked on a radio for one of our fire chefs once, which had channel announcement on every zone, and every channel. Drove me nuts after five minutes.

We usually provide programming services to our system customers for free as part of their user fees, but I billed that agency an hourly rate for that one. The chief was upset, but since I didn't have the original voice files I had to recreate them (after trying without success to talk the chief out of using voice announcement). The radio was loaded with all 512 channels; took me hours to do the job, at $30/hour.

 

[K2NEC]

I would respectfully disagree with that. It's just a different way of doing things. I have both Harris and Motorola radios for ham use, and they all work great once you get used to them. The learning curve for Harris isn't any greater than that for Motorola if you've never really used either one a great deal.

It's all very much a matter of personal opinion.

I think he may have been suggesting that Harris/Harris vendors are not ham friendly. Getting wide band enabled isn't easy for individuals. Harris/Vendors require some documentation, and generally only will help if you have purchased radios from them. Buying use Harris radios off e-Bay usually results in frustration.

Motorola, depending on the radio/vintage, is a bit easier.

I run both Harris and Motorola gear at work and for my own personal ham use. Both do work fine.

mmckenna is correct, I was lucky enough to be able to source a programming cable for my radios because now they are so few and far between. The software also took a few months to get having to go through a dealer. I have a P5400 and a P7100 that I use for HAM with relatively minimal complications. My XL200p is never getting on any of the HAM stuff because of the lack of wideband and it takes an act of congress to convince Harris to give out a wideband entitlement. So I let that one go real quick.

As for sourcing them, ebay very rarely has one that works on HAM that has decent features and finding something like an XG75 or P7300 in UHF or VHF is pretty difficult. Sometimes they have EDACS but no P25, and I would say it's not really worth getting one just for analog because getting a P25 feature likely won't happen either.

 

[wa8pyr]

mmckenna is correct, I was lucky enough to be able to source a programming cable for my radios because now they are so few and far between. The software also took a few months to get having to go through a dealer. I have a P5400 and a P7100 that I use for HAM with relatively minimal complications. My XL200p is never getting on any of the HAM stuff because of the lack of wideband and it takes an act of congress to convince Harris to give out a wideband entitlement. So I let that one go real quick.

I've never had a problem getting stuff through our Harris dealer, but then we have a good relationship. My understanding is that it's more of a top-down thing; the dealers are perfectly willing to sell the stuff (Wideband entitlement, etc), but Harris corporate makes it tougher.

 

[mmckenna]

I've never had a problem getting stuff through our Harris dealer, but then we have a good relationship. My understanding is that it's more of a top-down thing; the dealers are perfectly willing to sell the stuff (Wideband entitlement, etc), but Harris corporate makes it tougher.

That's the trick, you need to have a relationship with the dealer. Buying a used radio and then wanting a dealer to provide ham friendly services for free/low cost, is usually the challenge.
I had little problems getting wide band for my 4 radios, but I'd just purchased them from the dealer, and am putting another PO in for $500K more.

Should be interesting to see what ham radio does in the future. As commercial gear goes narrow, the used equipment market for wide band capable radios/repeaters is going to dry up. Hams are going to need to adapt, or rely only on ham radio gear only.
I know mentioning narrow band analog to hams usually results in an argument.

 

[mancow]

Yes they need to start using narrow band.

 

[wa8pyr]

That's the trick, you need to have a relationship with the dealer. Buying a used radio and then wanting a dealer to provide ham friendly services for free/low cost, is usually the challenge.

I don't know of any dealer that would provide feature updates or other services free or low cost. They'll charge standard rate.

Yes they need to start using narrow band.

Why? If it was good enough in 1960, it should be good enough now!!!

(Darn kids, stay off my lawn!!!!!)

 

[YL3IM]

Why? If it was good enough in 1960, it should be good enough now!!!

Regulations change. In R1 FM is narrow on 2m and mostly narrow in 70cm (400-432 and 438-440 aren't available in Nordic countries, for example).

VHF & up Bandplanning | International Amateur Radio Union (IARU)

www.iaru-r1.org

 

[wa8pyr]

Regulations change. In R1 FM is narrow on 2m and mostly narrow in 70cm (400-432 and 438-440 aren't available in Nordic countries, for example).

VHF & up Bandplanning | International Amateur Radio Union (IARU)

www.iaru-r1.org

I know. I was making a joke, hence the funny faces at the end of the sentence.

 

[K2NEC]

Regulations change. In R1 FM is narrow on 2m and mostly narrow in 70cm (400-432 and 438-440 aren't available in Nordic countries, for example).

VHF & up Bandplanning | International Amateur Radio Union (IARU)

www.iaru-r1.org

 

[mmckenna]

I don't know of any dealer that would provide feature updates or other services free or low cost. They'll charge standard rate.

Me neither.
Supporting customers is one thing. Supporting those that are not customers becomes something else. Buying used radios off e-Bay comes with risks, and not getting support from a dealer is one of them.