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Motorola Radio on a Harris System

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Metrofire31

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Can anyone tell me whether a Motorola XTS 2500 portable can be programmed to work on a Harris P25 Phase II trunked system?

Metrofire31
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GTR8000

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Well, the XTS series it not capable of Phase II operation, so if the talkgroups you need to operate on are TDMA...the answer is a very definitive "no".
 

Metrofire31

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I must question your response regarding the XTS. I am an authorized user (COMNET User) of the City of Atlanta P25 Phase II system and my XTS 5000 is what I use for that system. It was actually programmed by the System Administrator for the Atlanta System.

Metrofire31
 

KevinC

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I must question your response regarding the XTS. I am an authorized user (COMNET User) of the City of Atlanta P25 Phase II system and my XTS 5000 is what I use for that system. It was actually programmed by the System Administrator for the Atlanta System.

Metrofire31
But are the TG's you use TDMA? If so I can guarantee your 5000 isn't working on them.
 

R8000

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I must question your response regarding the XTS.
From the RR database for Atlanta's TRS :

"Many talk groups use Dynamic Dual Mode, which allows the talk group to automatically switch to TDMA (Phase II) when only TDMA-capable subscriber radios are active on the talk group but revert to Phase I when older radios are active on the talk group. As a result, many talk groups below shown as "D" Mode (Phase I) may intermittently become T (TDMA, Phase II) and only be monitored on a Phase II capable scanner at any time "

This doesn't apply to all P25 trunked systems since it's up to the system administration to decide if they want to use this feature or not and the system has the hardware capable to support this feature.
 

GTR8000

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I must question your response regarding the XTS. I am an authorized user (COMNET User) of the City of Atlanta P25 Phase II system and my XTS 5000 is what I use for that system. It was actually programmed by the System Administrator for the Atlanta System.
Right, and the talkgroups in question must be capable of FDMA operation if the XTS works.

You asked if the XTS would work on a "Harris P25 Phase II" trunked system, without specifying what mode the talkgroups would operate in. I gave you a generic answer based on limited information, and that answer is correct.
 

MTS2000des

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Atlanta uses DDM on most talkgroups. I have been told ComNET will require a TDMA capable subscriber as of April 2020. Regardless, the other folks have told you correct. If the system is configured for dual mode (I administrate a Motorola system so I don't know the Harris parlance) and, if allowed by the system management, than yes- it can be programmed. It will also require a WACN key from Harris for the system (this is also true for APX radios).
 

Metrofire31

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Thanks, everyone! I appreciate learning things I didn't know since I'm not a sophisticated user. I was basing my statement totally on the RR Database description of Atlanta's system as Phase II but didn't realize there were caveats regarding this definition. Again, I certainly did not intend to imply that I am a know-it-all because I'm not. I MAY have an opportunity to use one of my Motorola XTS (2500, 5000) on a Harris system and was being "hopeful" that my radios might work for the authorized technician to program. I am typically hesitant to demonstrate on these Forums my ignorance regarding two-way radios, trunked systems, etc., especially when it seems to invite responses like the one above from OUTERDOG that are not helpful to anyone who is only trying to learn. Thanks, again, to all of you for your counsel.

Metrofire31
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MTS2000des

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FWIW Radio Reference database is great for hobbyists and scanner programming.
System owners should be the "go to" source for anything regarding their systems. They are, after all, the ones who have the final say and know their networks better than any crowd sourced database intended for hobbyist use.
 

flux4201

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Thanks, everyone! I appreciate learning things I didn't know since I'm not a sophisticated user. I was basing my statement totally on the RR Database description of Atlanta's system as Phase II but didn't realize there were caveats regarding this definition. Again, I certainly did not intend to imply that I am a know-it-all because I'm not. I MAY have an opportunity to use one of my Motorola XTS (2500, 5000) on a Harris system and was being "hopeful" that my radios might work for the authorized technician to program. I am typically hesitant to demonstrate on these Forums my ignorance regarding two-way radios, trunked systems, etc., especially when it seems to invite responses like the one above from OUTERDOG that are not helpful to anyone who is only trying to learn. Thanks, again, to all of you for your counsel.

Metrofire31
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Hopefully your Harris system is not setup to use the Harris Proprietary Patch and Simulselect feature, if so, when a dispatch console (a harris dispatch console) does a patch (merging two talkgroups together for whatever reason) or a simulselect (the console talking on more then one talkgroup at a time, like for a BOL or some sort if broadcast) you will miss the traffic on the XTS radios.

I ran into that issue with the older Moto and Kenwood subscriber units on my system, a setting has to be changed on the system infrastructure to use the Motorola method instead of the Harris Proprietary method.
 

rescue161

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I'm a system admin for a fairly large Harris Phase 2 system and we have a lot of XTS2500s on our system. When talkgroups are created, they are always put in as Phase 2. The subscriber radios are entered as what they are capable of and the transcoders do all of the magic. If a Phase 1 subscriber is affiliated to a site and he is on a talkgroup that everyone else is using Phase 2, then everyone on that site will be stripped down to Phase 1. All other sites that have Phase 2 only subscribers on that talkgroup will remain at Phase 2.
 

MTS2000des

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I'm a system admin for a fairly large Harris Phase 2 system and we have a lot of XTS2500s on our system. When talkgroups are created, they are always put in as Phase 2. The subscriber radios are entered as what they are capable of and the transcoders do all of the magic. If a Phase 1 subscriber is affiliated to a site and he is on a talkgroup that everyone else is using Phase 2, then everyone on that site will be stripped down to Phase 1. All other sites that have Phase 2 only subscribers on that talkgroup will remain at Phase 2.
I can't wait until this summer when I upgrade our Astro core to R20.x, so transcoding is supporting. It's holding back both ISSI talkgroups from being supporting transcoding, and right now I've got some dispatch talkgroups strapped FDMA due to console patching issues with transcoding.
 

ElroyJetson

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DO NOT ASK ME FOR HELP PROGRAMMING YOUR RADIO. NO.
Just because I've never received a straight answer, I'm going to ask this question one more time: if a system is commissioned and built by Harris and deployed with all Harris radios, and at a later time it's decided to add some Motorola radios to the system, how do you solve the riddle of the system key? Motorola generates system keys for their own systems but a Harris system (certain kinds, I'm not saying all of them) don't use the same system key concept. Without a system key, the trunked data can't be generated to program the radio.

So where do you get a system key for a Motorola radio to work on a Harris system for which no Motorola generated system key exists?

I do realize this question is basically for legacy products. But it's one I've never found a real answer for and I just want to fill in that blank in my knowledge.
 

rescue161

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We get the hardware master system key from Motorola for the Motorola radios. With the Master key, we can make our own syskeys for authorized programmers.
 

flux4201

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Just because I've never received a straight answer, I'm going to ask this question one more time: if a system is commissioned and built by Harris and deployed with all Harris radios, and at a later time it's decided to add some Motorola radios to the system, how do you solve the riddle of the system key? Motorola generates system keys for their own systems but a Harris system (certain kinds, I'm not saying all of them) don't use the same system key concept. Without a system key, the trunked data can't be generated to program the radio.

So where do you get a system key for a Motorola radio to work on a Harris system for which no Motorola generated system key exists?

I do realize this question is basically for legacy products. But it's one I've never found a real answer for and I just want to fill in that blank in my knowledge.
Whoever is authorized (like the system administrator) to add radios/do the programming (if their the same people) on your system would purchase a system key from Motorola.
 

RRR

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I can't help buy notice the "ISSI" talkgroups are pretty much the "random" harris patch Talkgroups.
 
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