That all depends on how the gateway is set up on the system that you're monitoring the "ISSI" talkgroups.
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Motorola Radio on a Harris System
- Thread starter Metrofire31
- Start date
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Well, that's the thing I'm talking about...there IS no Motorola system key for a system built by Harris.
And yet...it can be done. The key can be generated (and don't think I don't know about system key generators), but, to give a hypothetical example, let's say that a Motorola system has an ID of ABC1. As I recall, though it's been years since I used Trunker, or anything like it, the
system ID is broadcast data in the CC data stream. You know what the system key ID would be. ABC1. Harris doesn't use that key type, so how would you determine what the key would be? Is there equivalent data in the Harris P25 CC data stream to reference the key to?
There are literally NO Harris P25 systems anywhere near me. I'm not looking for this information to use it. I just want it because I want to know.
And yet...it can be done. The key can be generated (and don't think I don't know about system key generators), but, to give a hypothetical example, let's say that a Motorola system has an ID of ABC1. As I recall, though it's been years since I used Trunker, or anything like it, the
system ID is broadcast data in the CC data stream. You know what the system key ID would be. ABC1. Harris doesn't use that key type, so how would you determine what the key would be? Is there equivalent data in the Harris P25 CC data stream to reference the key to?
There are literally NO Harris P25 systems anywhere near me. I'm not looking for this information to use it. I just want it because I want to know.
Harris uses the same type of key structure as Motorola or any other vendor. There is the syskey and the WACN and if you own the system, you can have any company generate a key for their radios. We have several different vendors on our system and each vendor had to create a key for us for those radios. And we are not using software syskeys. The hardware keys have the WACN and the SYSID and auto fill in the trunking areas of CPS.
A system ID is a system ID. As stated each vendor would generate their version of a system key that would work with their subscribers.
As long as I have a system key for ABC1 for my Motorola radio it doesn't matter if the system is MSI, Harris, EFJ or whatever, I can program it to that system.
As long as I have a system key for ABC1 for my Motorola radio it doesn't matter if the system is MSI, Harris, EFJ or whatever, I can program it to that system.
@ElroyJetson read this thread, it will answer most/all of your questions:
I'm not sure if you realize that a system key is merely a means to unlock certain fields in the programming software. It serves no other purpose. As @KevinC states, the transmission of the WACN and SysID over a P25 control channel is not proprietary, it's part of the standard which all manufacturers follow.
Programming a Harris system into a Motorola subscriber is as simple as obtaining the appropriate Advanced WACN Key (AWK), setting the Coverage Type to Intra-WACN Roaming, and disabling Validate NAC Against System ID parameter. It's really not much more complicated than that.
System Keys
I see much discussion here regarding System Keys for SmartZone systems and WACN keys for P25. I come from a background in EDACS and conventional prior to that so my experience with Motorola trunking is fairly limited, particularly on the system administration side. Does anyone have a link or...
communications.support
I'm not sure if you realize that a system key is merely a means to unlock certain fields in the programming software. It serves no other purpose. As @KevinC states, the transmission of the WACN and SysID over a P25 control channel is not proprietary, it's part of the standard which all manufacturers follow.
Programming a Harris system into a Motorola subscriber is as simple as obtaining the appropriate Advanced WACN Key (AWK), setting the Coverage Type to Intra-WACN Roaming, and disabling Validate NAC Against System ID parameter. It's really not much more complicated than that.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
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- 641
A system key has nothing to do with the radio system. A system key is for accessing trunking features in CPS. That's it.
The System ID is a function of the Project 25 standard.
The system key is made for a brand of radio as well as the system. To make a system key to put a Motorola radio on a Harris system, the radio owner, a Motorola tech, and the system admin must get together to put the key info into a key purchased from Motorola, for a hardware key, which is the most common. You need the Motorola software to generate the key. The radio owner would normally buy it.
It can be a really convoluded mess when you need to put 3 or more systems into one radio!
As far as Harris goes, there are two ways. You either have TAC add the WACN of the system that you want to add to your AAC license and then the systems will show up under your AAC info under RPM/RPM2. The other way is to use a hardware dongle. We have both as the hardware dongle offers the owner of that system more control as they can set expiration dates and restrict info, such as RID and TIG blocks. We use both as we have access to many different systems.
I'm probably still thinking more along the lines of the legacy system keys used in the Type I and Type II trunking systems, since my involvement in P25 isn't as extensive and I've been mostly out of the loop since 2014 when I semi-retired. But I understand WACN, etc. A bit rusty on it but it isn't an unknown concept.
It is the same concept as the old legacy systems, except that P25 adds another layer (WACN) to the mix. Motorola continued to use the SYSID as the key and pretty much ignored the WACN and left it at BEE00. Harris followed the P25 standard more closely and used the WACN as the key for each individual system and the SYSID as the regional key. That's why you'll see Harris SYSIDs that are the same between different systems, but the WACN will be completely different. When talking with a Harris engineer, you'll rarely hear them mention a "System Key." They usually refer to it as the "WACN Key."
mdsxfire
EDBM
We are on a harris sytem P25 phase 2 and have all harris radios deployed (to our dismay) but each fire apparatus has a Motorola APX6000? in it for mutual aid systems. we are going to be programming these radios to use our harris system to have an extra portable, so from what i was told yes they will work, P25 is a standard not specific company issue. Now like someone said if your system administrator doesnt want to allow Motorola radios on the system thats a fight you have to go for. We have some towns that are switching to the county harris system and have very specifically told the county they will not use Harris radios, the only way they are switching is if they stay on Motorola.
bryanhendrix
persistent
system key or WACN ?? A recent purchase of an EF Johnson VP 400 was made by me, in an effort to compare receiver sensitivity of a fleet radio/ professional radio/ actual transceiver IF compared to a 'scanner'. I am also interested in - confirming the idea or belief that my EFJ transceiver needs a system key to 'handshake' with the County system. The system I wish to receive and not transmit on is Motorola P 25 Phase 2 TDMA. If a sytem technician for San Diego RCS views this - your input is welcome. Any recommend/suggestion/ constructive opinion from any radio system admin is also welcome
You have to have a system key to program trunking in a VP900, you can try but it will give you an error and wont let you program the radio, i dont know about a VP400, but im guessing its the same.
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