• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

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Motorola vs. ProVoice: Does our hobby have a future?

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Barrygilnc

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Does anyone know of any dept anywhere in the country that needed a new radio system recently and went with Motorola? From the news I see on RR it looks like anyone that gets a new system gets ProVoice, which can’t be monitored . Flagler County FL, New Orleans, and the States of New York, Florida and Pennsylvania have all chosen ProVoice and several other areas have had ProVoice for years. I’ve wondered if, as this trend continues and more radio systems age and need replacement, eventually there won’t be any police or fire dept’s that can be monitored.

I’d be especially interested in the opinion of communication professionals who are RR members. Do you see a future for Motorola in public safety communication? Do you see a future for monitoring?

Thank you,
Barry
 

safetyobc

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Arkansas Statewide System (AWIN) is a Motorola P25 system. It was installed last year. It continues to grow as more and more agencies jump on board.

I'm no professional, but ProVoice will not take over. Too much competition. A lot of times systems being purchased comes down to costs. Motorola is very competitive most of the time.
 

K9GTJ

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Indiana is just finishing a build out of a MOT P25 (& analog) system statewide and many local public safety agencies are already on board. Indianapolis has an older MOT system and is going to upgrade to a new MOT system so scanning in Indiana will remain viable for many years to come.
 
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N_Jay

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grem467 said:
I wonder why anyone would NOT buy a P25 compliant system these days, its a standard for a reason.
Some buyers think they are smarter than than everyone else.:roll:
 

Thayne

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If you are 50 or under, have no fear, for sooner or later people will be able to hear ProVoice, but don't forget that most new systems have encryption just a flip of the switch away, and for that my friend, we are all SOL.

(I KNOW RDale won't agree with my ProVoice opinion, but just watch) ;)
 
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N_Jay

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Thayne said:
If you are 50 or under, have no fear, for sooner or later people will be able to hear ProVoice, but don't forget that most new systems have encryption just a flip of the switch away, and for that my friend, we are all SOL.

(I KNOW RDale won't agree with my ProVoice opinion, but just watch) ;)
Sure they can, just buy a Pro-Voice radio.:lol: :lol:
 

2112

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Barrygilnc said:
Does anyone know of any dept anywhere in the country that needed a new radio system recently and went with Motorola? From the news I see on RR it looks like anyone that gets a new system gets ProVoice, which can’t be monitored . Flagler County FL, New Orleans, and the States of New York, Florida and Pennsylvania have all chosen ProVoice and several other areas have had ProVoice for years. I’ve wondered if, as this trend continues and more radio systems age and need replacement, eventually there won’t be any police or fire dept’s that can be monitored.

I’d be especially interested in the opinion of communication professionals who are RR members. Do you see a future for Motorola in public safety communication? Do you see a future for monitoring?

Thank you,
Barry
Hi, Barry...

Moore, OK recently got a pantload o' cash for a radio system from a grant, and my understanding is that they are going Motorola, even though neighboring Oklahoma City is Pro-Voice. The State's statewide system is Motorola, and it's believed that Moore will be eventually joining up.

Do I see a future for Motorola in public safety communications? Absolutely. There's a reason they're #1... they make the best overall product at the right price (IMO). However, that doesn't mean that they make the best stuff for each individual entity purchasing a radio system. M/A-COM and others fill that niche. That's capitalism in action.

The psycohology/sociology of scannerists is interesting everytime a new "unscannable" technology comes along. Those of us that were around back when trunking started to become prevalent proclaimed it to be "the end of scanning". And now, a few short years down the road, we have scanners that can track most of those systems. The end of the world? Not so much. What about digital? I remember hearing "everyone will be going digital, and it will be the end of scanning." And since we have been offered digital-capable scanners to overcome that hurdle. And so it was with encryption. Did everyone code-up? Are we still scanning?

A M/A-COM EDACS Pro-Voice system is scannable if you have a Pro-Voice capable radio, but not by any consumer-available scanners at this time. Whether you decide to save your money for a Pro-Voice capable radio and have it properly programmed, or decide to cobble together your own Pro-Voice capable scanner is up to you (remember Etrunk?). Yes, it might take some work to do either... some self-discipline... some education... some money-saving... but all of these things can come with the right attitude. And this hobby has tons of people with the right attitude.

Some more discussion related to this is here: http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38818&page=1

In the opinion of this communications professional there is a future for Motorola in public safety communications and the scanner hobby isn't going anywhere. :)
 
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pinellasfirefighter

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pinellas will be switching from a mot 2 to a p-25. dont worry there will be a scanner in time called a trunker 5 with provoice. there is a way around everything.
 

JohnnyGalaga

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How do you guys know there will be a ProVoice Scanner? ProVoice is PROPRIETARY,which means M/A-COM would have give a scanner maker PERMISSION to copy their protocol. Am I right on this?
 
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N_Jay

Guest
The issue with a Pro-Voice scanner may have as much to do with the market size than the licensing issues.

Any scanner manufacturer today could license the vocoder from DVSI (assuming M/A-COM has not prohibited DVSI from licensing that specific format).

I would guess that there is little demand for a pro-voice scanner that would be yet another $100 or $200 more than the current crop of P25 scanners.

And don't forget that M/A-COM is now making P25 systems. With EFJ and EADS also coming on line I doubt the survival of Pro-Voice in the long run.
 
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N_Jay

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JohnnyGalaga said:
How do you guys know there will be a ProVoice Scanner? ProVoice is PROPRIETARY,which means M/A-COM would have give a scanner maker PERMISSION to copy their protocol. Am I right on this?
Yes and No.

The it would have to be "Clean Room" revers engineered. That is usually not a big problem, EXCEPT the vocoder is from DVSI.

Since VOCODER patents/copyrights are all that DVSI has, it is in their best interest to protect them very well.
 

pinellasfirefighter

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i argree with you on the provoice. the edacs system is **** as well as the statewide system they are using for law enforcement in florida. i`ve heard from many law enforcement officals on both these systems saying what a headache and problem they are. point blank they suck and i dont see them lasting myself. nothing beats a moto system.
 
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N_Jay

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MacombMonitor said:
Or...get bigger kick-backs! :mad:
LOL, you are way to suspicious.

Been in the industry a long time.

Never seen one of the kickback allegations ever come near being proved.

The most anyone gets is a few good dinners.

It's more about the persons feeling of importance, belief in their own "knowledge", and relationships with the vendors then anyone getting cash.
 

medic611

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#1 Majority of the systems in america are still analog, by the time everyone switched to digital it maybe 10-20 years down the road .
#2 Your rural , smaller communities can not afford that jump without major financial help. Wether its federal or state monies.
#3 Information they don't want you to hear is given over cell phones , MDT's , ect .
Last but not least as time goes so does technology , be patient sometimes keeping a secret is a good thing .
 

Thayne

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Once the "ProVoice cat" gets out of the bag, it will be like getting toothpaste back in the tube to catch that cat--

It is against the law to let other peoples' cats out just like is against the law to copy DVD's
--right??
 

Barrygilnc

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Thanks for all the replies!

It's definitely good to know there are so many agencies sticking with Motorola. I guess I'm an example of the pessimistic psychology 2112 mentioned.

Thanks again for all the info.
Barry
 
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N_Jay

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Thayne said:
Once the "ProVoice cat" gets out of the bag, it will be like getting toothpaste back in the tube to catch that cat--

It is against the law to let other peoples' cats out just like is against the law to copy DVD's
--right??

You all keep thinking its some big secret.

That is NOT the issue, all the technology in ProVoice is well known, it is the USE of it that is restricted.

The DVD example only works because it was decoded on a PC, so I guess for the VERY FEW people with PC based scanners, someone could put in the time, but that is NOT The same as a company producing a ProVoice scanner.
 

rdale

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Lansing MI and the all agencies in the county just left MPSCS (P25 statewide) to do their own EDACS system, completely monitorable.
 
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