Motorola XTS?

[Chris0516]

I was in the hospital for 17hrs.. During that time, I met a guy who was a former EMT and, still has his service radio. Which he said, was still functional was willing to give it to me for free. Free n' functional, or not, what can I really do with it?

 

[GTR8000]

A guy you just met wants to give you a radio that may not even legally belong to him...a radio which you know absolutely nothing about...what could possibly go wrong? 🤦‍♂️

 

[Chris0516]

A guy you just met wants to give you a radio that may not even legally belong to him...a radio which you know absolutely nothing about...what could possibly go wrong? 🤦‍♂️

All those are a given(and actually beside the point). I am curious about the capability of the radio, itself. Or, Is it just, a nice looking hood ornament . That I really can't do anything, with?

 

[GTR8000]

You haven't given any actual info about what band and features the radio has vs what you want to listen to, so at this point no one could possibly give you a worthwhile answer.

 

[ofd8001]

Owing to what features, etc., it has this might be a very costly radio. I'd be on the skeptical side.

 

[mmckenna]

what can I really do with it?

Well, that depends:

What band is it? These are single band radios. You cannot change what band it is on.
What features does it have? It'll have analog, but it might have P25 digital. Might have trunking. Might have some other cool features. Or, it might not.

So, here's what you can do with that:
If it's a band that you can use.
If you have Astro25 Portable programming software
If you have a programming cable
-or-
You have someone who can program it for you,
You can set it up to listen.

Good for conventional systems.
Using it to monitor trunking is a whole huge ball o'wax that comes with a bunch of challenges. Don't expect to use this to monitor a trunked system. If it has the right features, you can make it do it, but there's a lot of risks. Get a scanner. Get a scanner. Get a scanner.


If you have a valid FCC license:
And you have a radio that will work on the band/service you are licensed for
You can program it to transmit.
If it's VHF, you can use it on the 2 meter amateur radio band.
If it's UHF, and it's the correct band split, you can use it on the 70cm band.
If it's a 700/800MHz model, there is no where you can legally transmit with it, and no, you as an individual cannot get a license on 700 or 800MHz, there are no itinerant channels, no ham channels, no "free/don't need a license" channels, no matter what anyone tells you.

If it is UHF, it is NOT legal for GMRS, but some may ignore that and use it anyway.
If it is UHF, It is NOT legal for FRS in any way, shape or form, but some may ignore that and use it anyway.
If it is VHF, It is NOT legal for MURS in any way shape for form, but….


What it is:
Probably a 20+ year old radio that would be in need of alignment.
Probably in need of a new battery.
Probably in need of a new antenna.
If it was used by EMS, probably in need of sterilization.

Or, use it as a handy door stop.

 

[Chris0516]

Well, that depends:

What band is it? These are single band radios. You cannot change what band it is on.
What features does it have? It'll have analog, but it might have P25 digital. Might have trunking. Might have some other cool features. Or, it might not.

So, here's what you can do with that:
If it's a band that you can use.
If you have Astro25 Portable programming software
If you have a programming cable
-or-
You have someone who can program it for you,
You can set it up to listen.

Good for conventional systems.
Using it to monitor trunking is a whole huge ball o'wax that comes with a bunch of challenges. Don't expect to use this to monitor a trunked system. If it has the right features, you can make it do it, but there's a lot of risks. Get a scanner. Get a scanner. Get a scanner.


If you have a valid FCC license:
And you have a radio that will work on the band/service you are licensed for
You can program it to transmit.
If it's VHF, you can use it on the 2 meter amateur radio band.
If it's UHF, and it's the correct band split, you can use it on the 70cm band.
If it's a 700/800MHz model, there is no where you can legally transmit with it, and no, you as an individual cannot get a license on 700 or 800MHz, there are no itinerant channels, no ham channels, no "free/don't need a license" channels, no matter what anyone tells you.

If it is UHF, it is NOT legal for GMRS, but some may ignore that and use it anyway.
If it is UHF, It is NOT legal for FRS in any way, shape or form, but some may ignore that and use it anyway.
If it is VHF, It is NOT legal for MURS in any way shape for form, but….


What it is:
Probably a 20+ year old radio that would be in need of alignment.
Probably in need of a new battery.
Probably in need of a new antenna.
If it was used by EMS, probably in need of sterilization.

Or, use it as a handy door stop.

Thank you for both your generic, yet comprehensive answer.

 

[mmckenna]

...generic, ...answer.

Yeah, without any details on exactly what band the radio is, no one would be able to give you any specifics.

Keep in mind, sometimes "free" stuff gets to be really expensive.

 

[Chris0516]

Yeah, without any details on exactly what band the radio is, no one would be able to give you any specifics.

Keep in mind, sometimes "free" stuff gets to be really expensive.

I wasn't looking for specifics. Just a generic answer to Motorola's XTS line.

 

[KE4ZNR]

I wasn't looking for specifics. Just a generic answer to Motorola's XTS line.

Others have brought up the provenance issues so I will skip that aspect.
Since you live in Central NC if it *is* 800Mhz and you decide to attempt NAS be aware that local system admins & staff keep a close eye for improperly programmed NAS radios trying to affiliate to said systems.
And VIPER is switching to TDMA in less than 2 years so when that happens XTS/XTLs will be useless on VIPER.

 

[KevinC]

And then the drugs wore off...

 

[Chris0516]

Others have brought up the provenance issues so I will skip that aspect.
Since you live in Central NC if it *is* 800Mhz and you decide to attempt NAS be aware that local system admins & staff keep a close eye for improperly programmed NAS radios trying to affiliate to said systems.
And VIPER is switching to TDMA in less than 2 years so when that happens XTS/XTLs will be useless on VIPER.

With that said, I will still go visit the guy, but. Skip the radio.

 

[a417]

With that said, I will still go visit the guy, but. Skip the radio.

Tell him I'll take it.

 

[GTR8000]

*awaits upcoming posts asking how to program newly acquired XTS* 🍿

 

[mbnv992]

Next we’ll hear about how when he turns his radio on it just goes blank and shuts off. Even with a good known battery.

 

[nokones]

>If it is UHF, it is NOT legal for GMRS, but some may ignore that and use it anyway.
>If it is UHF, It is NOT legal for FRS in any way, shape or form, but some may ignore that and use it anyway.
>If it is VHF, It is NOT legal for MURS in any way shape for form, but….

That is a "Less Than an Accurate" comment for the GMRS radio service freqs.

If the radio, such as, a XTS series radio that is Type Accepted for Part 90 use, is legal to use on Part 95, Subpart E GMRS frequencies pursuant to Section 95.1761(c) and can be operated on GMRS frequencies if the operator is operating the subject radio within the respective power/emission limitation rules for that specific radio frequency.

If you are a GMRS License holder, the subject radio can also be operated with any radio (Mobile, Base, or handheld portable) on the shared 462 MHz Interstitial GMRS/FRS (Channels 1-7 462.5625-462/7125) providing the radio does not exceed more than 5 watts (ERP). A GMRS license holder may operate his/her Part 90 handheld portable radio only on the 467 MHz Interstitial shared GMRS/FRS Channels 8-14 (467.5625-467.7125) providing the radio does not operate with more than .5 watt ERP.

I don't know if the FRS and MURS radio services have the same allowance or not. I haven't paid any attention to those rules nor do I care to since I don't operate within those two radio services with my Part 90 radios.

 

[mmckenna]

If the radio, such as, a XTS series radio that is Type Accepted for Part 90 use, is legal to use on Part 95, Subpart E GMRS frequencies pursuant to Section 95.1761(c) and can be operated on GMRS frequencies if the operator is operating the subject radio within the respective power/emission limitation rules for that specific radio frequency.

That gets brought up periodically. That's not what 95.1761(c) says.

The Part 95 rules are pretty clear that the radio must have type certification under that subpart (Part 95). That's why Part 95 exists and why they certify GMRS radios under Part 95, not part 90.
But we know that many people ignore that and run Part 90 radios. If done completely within the specs, no one is going to know.

If Part 95 certification was not needed on Part 90 radios, then there wouldn't be radios that have both certifications, yet there are….

 

[nokones]

That gets brought up periodically. That's not what 95.1761(c) says.

The Part 95 rules are pretty clear that the radio must have type certification under that subpart (Part 95). That's why Part 95 exists and why they certify GMRS radios under Part 95, not part 90.
But we know that many people ignore that and run Part 90 radios. If done completely within the specs, no one is going to know.

If Part 95 certification was not needed on Part 90 radios, then there wouldn't be radios that have both certifications, yet there are….

Yes, I agree, the entire Section is pretty clear and the radios must be certified for Part 95 to operate on Part 95, Subpart E freqs.

However, there is an exception to 95.1761, subsection (a) and that is subsection (c). Subsection (c) is as follows: No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, "unless" such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. (Quote Abbreviated)

Read it slowly and tell me what do you think this subsection means than if you think the Part 90 type accepted radios do not meet this rule? The XTS5000 R1 and R2 ranges are Part 90 Type Accepted radios with freq ranges of 380-470 MHz and 450-520 MHz. That means the GMRS freq pairs fall within the aforementioned and type acceptance ranges. The only freq range in the Part 90 type-accepted XTS series or any Part 90 type accepted radio that is not allowed by subsection (c) is the Amateur Radio Service freqs.

As per the rule, if my Part 90 type-accepted radio is operating on a GMRS freq, then the radio is a GMRS station/transmitter and I must operate accordingly to the Part 95, Subsection E rules. When I change to a Part 90 frequency then it is a Part 90 station/transmitter and then I must operate accordingly to the Part 90 rules.

The Part 90 radios do exceed all the emission, accuracy, bandwidth, modulation and other requirements of Part 95, subpart E rules and limitations. Since, the Part 90 type acceptance radios are already type-accepted, they don't need any further type-acceptance certification.

That is why the FCC modified this rule a few years ago to allow the Part 90 Type-Acceptance radios to operate on Part 95, Subpart E freqs providing that the radio operator operates the subject radio accordingly.

By the way, the FCC will not issue more than one type-acceptance certification for any radio. A specific rule/regulation has to make the exception to allow another radio service station/transmitter to operate on a respective radio service frequency and that is the case in this matter.

 

[KevinC]

Yes, I agree, the entire Section is pretty clear and the radios must be certified for Part 95 to operate on Part 95, Subpart E freqs.

However, there is an exception to 95.1761, subsection (a) and that is subsection (c). Subsection (c) is as follows: No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, "unless" such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. (Quote Abbreviated)

Read it slowly and tell me what do you think this subsection means than if you think the Part 90 type accepted radios do not meet this rule? The XTS5000 R1 and R2 ranges are Part 90 Type Accepted radios with freq ranges of 380-470 MHz and 450-520 MHz. That means the GMRS freq pairs fall within the aforementioned and type acceptance ranges. The only freq range in the Part 90 type-accepted XTS series or any Part 90 type accepted radio that is not allowed by subsection (c) is the Amateur Radio Service freqs.

As per the rule, if my Part 90 type-accepted radio is operating on a GMRS freq, then the radio is a GMRS station/transmitter and I must operate accordingly to the Part 95, Subsection E rules. When I change to a Part 90 frequency then it is a Part 90 station/transmitter and then I must operate accordingly to the Part 90 rules.

The Part 90 radios do exceed all the emission, accuracy, bandwidth, modulation and other requirements of Part 95, subpart E rules and limitations. Since, the Part 90 type acceptance radios are already type-accepted, they don't need any further type-acceptance certification.

That is why the FCC modified this rule a few years ago to allow the Part 90 Type-Acceptance radios to operate on Part 95, Subpart E freqs providing that the radio operator operates the subject radio accordingly.

By the way, the FCC will not issue more than one type-acceptance certification for any radio. A specific rule/regulation has to make the exception to allow another radio service station/transmitter to operate on a respective radio service frequency and that is the case in this matter.

My take....It means if the transmitter has capabilities outside the GMRS frequencies it has to be certified on those frequencies as well. This is so you can't have a radio capable of 440-470 but only have a part 95 certification....but I could be wrong.

 

[mmckenna]

My take....It means if the transmitter has capabilities outside the GMRS frequencies it has to be certified on those frequencies as well. This is so you can't have a radio capable of 440-470 but only have a part 95 certification....but I could be wrong.

Yeah I agree. "Also certified". It specifically talks about having capabilities outside the GMRS service and mentions that it needs to be certified under those parts. I think saying this allows Part 90 accepted radios is stretching it. If that was the intent of this section, I could theoretically use whatever radio I wanted as long as it was type accepted under any other rules part. So, could I use a TV broadcast transmitter on GMRS if the transmitter had Part 73 certification?

95.355 touches on this. If you look at the 95.735 mentioned in that same section, they specifically mention using non-certified transmitters for the remote control radio service -if- it meets the technical requirement.
For GMRS (presumably) they specifically mention 95.1735 (which falls in the range of the GMRS specific rules), however that section does not/no longer exists.

I've found, after reading lots of lots of FCC rules, that the FCC is -usually- exceedingly capable of being very precise and exact in their rules. They generally do not leave anything to guessing. I think the failure of the FCC to actually have a working link to the correct GMRS 95.1735 (or whatever they meant) is an exception and should not be used as a free pass.

Would be fairly easy for someone to send a well worded e-mail to a knowledgeable individual and the FCC and get an accurate response.