BCD325P2/BCD996P2: MOTOTRBO DMR System Monitoring For Newbie

[Bruin18]

Hi There-

Forgive me if I'm in the wrong section...

The resort I used to monitor just switched from an analog system to a MOTOTRBO DMR System.

I upgraded my scanner to a Uniden BCD325P2 Digital Scanner and paid to Unlock the MOTOTRBO DMR Monitoring.

I created a search group and am now able to hear what I think is all the radio traffic on one channel. Based on what they did in the past I'm thinking they probably have 4 different talk groups setup.

I'm now trying to figure out if there's a way for me to start separating out the different groups so I can control which department I listen to.

I'm new to all of this, so any help would be really appreciated!

 

[KevinC]

Assuming it's not trunked you'll have to use OFT to separate TG's on a conventional DMR channel.

 

[Bruin18]

Assuming it's not trunked you'll have to use OFT to separate TG's on a conventional DMR channel.

Is there a way I would know whether it's trunked?

Also... so sorry but what is OFT and TG?

Thanks!

 

[doctordialtone]

so sorry but what is OFT and TG?

OFT is One Frequency Trunk

TG = Talk Group

Easier to Read BCD325P2 Digital Scanner Manual

 

[hiegtx]

Is there a way I would know whether it's trunked?

Do you have a link to the system in the database for the old analog system (or the FCC license if it is not in the database)

Also... so sorry but what is OFT and TG?

OFT refers to setting the system as a "One Frequency Trunked" system. TG refers to 'Talk Group'. See this Wiki page for a basic description of how trunked systems work Trunking Basics - The RadioReference Wiki

You do have the DMR upgrade, correct?

For Uniden scanners, if you are programming conventional (non-trunked system) frequencies that use DMR, if you program them as just a basic 'conventional channel' (the same way analog conventional channels are programmed), you can set the Color Code used, but not any talkgroups. In many cases, the licensee is using the same frequency for more than one purpose. For a small town, for example, they may use the same frequency for both Fire & Law Enforcement. But they assign a different TGID (Talk Group ID) for each department (fire & police).

The Whistler scanners, such as the TRX-1 & TRX-2, allow you to create a conventional channel, and include both the color code as well as a talkgroup. But that is not an option for Uniden scanners receiving DMR.

For the Uniden's, create a One Frequency Trunked system, 'OFT' (that is a system type that is one of your choices when creating a new system). Each Frequency is entered as a separate site. You would also create a Department for whatever talkgroups are used. If this is a new system, not in the database, so no TGIDs are shown, then set the system to ID Search. That will find any active talkgroups using one of the frequencies in your OFT system.

 

[Bruin18]

Do you have a link to the system in the database for the old analog system (or the FCC license if it is not in the database)

OFT refers to setting the system as a "One Frequency Trunked" system. TG refers to 'Talk Group'. See this Wiki page for a basic description of how trunked systems work Trunking Basics - The RadioReference Wiki

Thank you! I'm wrapping my head around it!

Trunking Basics - The RadioReference Wiki

You do have the DMR upgrade, correct?

Yes, I paid and entered the passkey.

For Uniden scanners, if you are programming conventional (non-trunked system) frequencies that use DMR, if you program them as just a basic 'conventional channel' (the same way analog conventional channels are programmed), you can set the Color Code used, but not any talkgroups. In many cases, the licensee is using the same frequency for more than one purpose. For a small town, for example, they may use the same frequency for both Fire & Law Enforcement. But they assign a different TGID (Talk Group ID) for each department (fire & police).

I do have a Uniden scanner. I programmed it as both a conventional channel and DMR channel.

The Whistler scanners, such as the TRX-1 & TRX-2, allow you to create a conventional channel, and include both the color code as well as a talkgroup. But that is not an option for Uniden scanners receiving DMR.

For the Uniden's, create a One Frequency Trunked system, 'OFT' (that is a system type that is one of your choices when creating a new system). Each Frequency is entered as a separate site. You would also create a Department for whatever talkgroups are used. If this is a new system, not in the database, so no TGIDs are shown, then set the system to ID Search. That will find any active talkgroups using one of the frequencies in your OFT system.

I have seen both ID 11 and ID 12 come up on the DMR channel. Are they both different groups? I'm wondering if there is additional info i should be looking for?

I'm assuming each of the departments has a different ID? And I can possibly set up each of the ID's separately?

I'm still lost on color code. And maybe I'm still totally off?

 

[hiegtx]

I have seen both ID 11 and ID 12 come up on the DMR channel. Are they both different groups? I'm wondering if there is additional info i should be looking for?

I'm assuming each of the departments has a different ID? And I can possibly set up each of the ID's separately?

I'm still lost on color code. And maybe I'm still totally off?

Is the ski lifts channel (452.650) the only one that is DMR, or are some of the other channels on license WNAV672, currently shown as conventional in the RR database, also using DMR? They are licensed to do so, as well as continue using analog transmissions.

For "ID's 11 & 12", are you seeing them listed as talk groups, like this?


Or, are you seeing them as UIDs (radio IDs) in your logging? (That has to be turned on using the settings menu on the scanner.)

If these are talk groups, with 11 used for one thing, and 12 for something else, you can program those talkgroups separately, using a text tag to label what they are being used for.

On the other hand, if these are radio IDs (UIDs), you can label with a name for whoever is using that specific radio in your logs, but you can't use them to 'program' the scanner as two different channels.

The Color Code, which is used for DMR systems, serves the same basic purpose as the PL or DPL that you see on the conventional channels. That is specific for that particular user. Another company or agency might also be using the same frequency. But they would select a different color code so that they don't hear the ski lift radio traffic. And, with different color codes, the personnel handling the ski lift would not hear the other user since they are using a different color code. For your specific county, Summit, 452.650 is licensed for the Deer Valley Resort, and previously for the Provo River Water Users Association (that license for the water agency is expired). Since these are two different entities, they would not have used the same color code. Here in my county, Dallas, a given business band frequency might have 6, or more, different companies assigned the same frequency (though, of course, on different FCC licenses).

 

[Bruin18]

View attachment 152756
Is the ski lifts channel (452.650) the only one that is DMR, or are some of the other channels on license WNAV672, currently shown as conventional in the RR database, also using DMR? They are licensed to do so, as well as continue using analog transmissions.

For "ID's 11 & 12", are you seeing them listed as talk groups, like this?
View attachment 152757

Or, are you seeing them as UIDs (radio IDs) in your logging? (That has to be turned on using the settings menu on the scanner.)

If these are talk groups, with 11 used for one thing, and 12 for something else, you can program those talkgroups separately, using a text tag to label what they are being used for.

So I've confirmed 11 is used for one thing and 12 is used for something else. Where the talk group ID name says Police in your picture I am seeing 11 or 12.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to separate them so I can choose which talk group to listen to.

Can you help with that?

On the other hand, if these are radio IDs (UIDs), you can label with a name for whoever is using that specific radio in your logs, but you can't use them to 'program' the scanner as two different channels.

I toggled the UID's on and off but I don't need to assign those.

The Color Code, which is used for DMR systems, serves the same basic purpose as the PL or DPL that you see on the conventional channels. That is specific for that particular user. Another company or agency might also be using the same frequency. But they would select a different color code so that they don't hear the ski lift radio traffic. And, with different color codes, the personnel handling the ski lift would not hear the other user since they are using a different color code. For your specific county, Summit, 452.650 is licensed for the Deer Valley Resort, and previously for the Provo River Water Users Association (that license for the water agency is expired). Since these are two different entities, they would not have used the same color code. Here in my county, Dallas, a given business band frequency might have 6, or more, different companies assigned the same frequency (though, of course, on different FCC licenses).

Not sure about where the color comes in. But don't think I need to bother with that.


Thank you!

 

[hiegtx]

So I've confirmed 11 is used for one thing and 12 is used for something else. Where the talk group ID name says Police in your picture I am seeing 11 or 12.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to separate them so I can choose which talk group to listen to.

Can you help with that?

That screenshot is simply an example of the display, from the 'Easier to Read' manual. In that example, Police was entered as the text tag for that talkgroup ID (TGID).

Do you have this created as an OFT system?

The single frequency is set as a site. Are you using software? If so, which program. I primarily use ProScan, but also have FreeSCAN installed.

In the OFT system, you should have a Group. The "11" & "12" would be entered as talkgroups in that department. When you can determine what each is being used for, then you would enter a text tag for how they are used. With them entered in a group, you can lockout either TGID, so that you are only hearing the other one. Once you enter the 11 & 12 as talkgroups, then add a text tag for what each is used for, you would see that text tag, not simply the number.

I toggled the UID's on and off but I don't need to assign those.

The UIDs are simply information about which radio is transmitting. These are not needed for receiving the system.

Not sure about where the color comes in. But don't think I need to bother with that.

If there was another company, or organization, using the same frequency as the one you are looking at, then setting the color code would be one way to limit what you are hearing to the one you are interested in. As I noted previously, the ski resort is the only licensed user in your county (Summit). Unless a person or company, whatever, was using the same frequency, in a neighboring county, but with a signal that you could hear in your area, then just leave the CC as "search".

Did you determine that one or more of the frequencies (other than the one for ski lifts, is also using DMR? Or are they still analog? If you find that DMR is in use for one or more of them, be sure to submit that so that the database can be updated to show correct usage.

 

[lu81fitter]

@Bruin18 said:

I do have a Uniden scanner. I programmed it as both a conventional channel and DMR channel.

I also have a 325P2 and listen to conventional DMR channels. You can program it as a OFT system. Then set the CC and TG if you want, or just set it to search for those. If set to search, you'll have to keep a close eye on your radio or, if you have software like Proscan, you can connect the scanner to your computer and log activity and see if there are more than 1 CC or TG on that system. IF there is only 1 TG, you can simply program the DMR frequency in as you would any other. The scanner will identify it as DMR and you will hear it because you have the upgrade. That's how it works on mine. I'm sure they are all the same.

 

[Typestries]

Suggest to look at other Alterra owned resorts in the database that are running DMR Motorola Capacity Plus systems for some insight into the talk group layout. In planning for a steamboat trip I noticed that their system layout is similar in nature to our home resort (albeit larger in sites and talk group quantity) and that they all seem to be deployed by the same major national radio system provider. Might just be the case for this new system as well. Hope this helps!

 

[AngWay]

Will the scanner pick up trunked DMR even if none has been programmed into the scanner?

 

[dmfalk]

If it's in the main database, yes. If not, no. It knows how to follow the control channels, but unless it knows the LCN channels (unlike P25, which have channel information based on a band pattern), it won't know where to go. (The database would already have the info provided, if the system is in the database.)