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MotoTrbo Programming into a NX-5800

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ndejohn

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Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
64
Location
Middletown, Connecticut
Hello All -

Pardon me if this had been discussed already. I don't think it has so, here it is. I am new to the Kenwood NX line, having been with the big "M" all my life. I have recently purchased a Kenwood NX5700/NX-5800 with the KCH-20R control head. I have the radio up and running and it is awesome, thus far. I am still trying to figure out the DMR stuff, using my information I have form my old Motorola codeplugs. This is where I am getting hung up.

I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that is familiar with the XPR5550 programming and could help me convert things over, manually that is, so that I can get my DMR stuff working in the new Kenwood rig; particular questions pertaining to Roaming, RX Group Lists, Individual Contacts, Group Contacts, etc.

If someone could lend a hand, or two, or ten to me, that would be great!

Thanks,
Nick
 

otobmark

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Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Messages
131
Location
NC
It's a big subject at which I'm a beginner. I'm thinking you have googled and scoured YouTube looking for some kind of tutorial, I know I did and found nothing. Bad news cut and paste very limited. Good news you can use excel spreadsheets to edit and paste contact lists. If you add a license (p25, dmr etc) or turn it on after you've made a codeplug you have to build a complete new plug so don't invest a lot of time building an extensive plug until you have radio configured the way you want. You can create 32 lists in each category (dmr individual ID, group ID). Any list can become group receive list. There is no separate master ID list like Moto.
I could write pages about my journey so far but hopefully someone can point you to some kind of programming guide. If all fails message me. Blind leading blind category.
 

ndejohn

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
64
Location
Middletown, Connecticut
Any information is always helpful. The problem is I am so accustom to Motorola because I have programmed them for so long, that I am now trying to learn something new and I am trying to get all the information into the right locations to make it all work and I don't seem to be having to much luck.
 

EWC_BDN

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Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
44
Location
Brandon MB
IIRC, you need a DMR license to program the thing in DMR. If you have that, you will also have to select which two protocols you want to use. The radio can't do P25, NXDN and DMR at the same time. Only 2 of the three.

I can go into more detail on how to do that if you need. past that, I don't have a DMR license for one, so I've never messed with the DMR stuff on them.
 

otobmark

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Messages
131
Location
NC
My Travels thus far....a cautionary tale at best

Any information is always helpful. The problem is I am so accustom to Motorola because I have programmed them for so long, that I am now trying to learn something new and I am trying to get all the information into the right locations to make it all work and I don't seem to be having to much luck.
Even if I sound sure of myself in certain parts, this is only my experience so far and not in any way Gospel or best practices. My errors will probably be rookie mistakes but like poster above I could get no help so file this under the Blind leading the Blind. Please do not respond to this post as if I'm a poser expert full of ....; it's just the best I can do on my own.
Top bar clk on Model & dropdown has Product Information-clk on that. It will show your radio features including installed licenses. Things not available are grayed out and the rest you can check boxes for what you want. Say you have P25, Nxdn, & DMR licenses you have to limit yourself to just 2 of the digital formats at a time (per deck mobile). So, let's say you have Nxdn and DMR selected and create a codeplug from there. Later you decide the 2 digital modes you want are DMR and P25--you will have to start from scratch to build a new codeplug, not just simply amended a few things.
Under the Product Information window you also select rather to use Personality or Channel Table for zone-channel Format. Personality is the most flexible and the only one I have used so far.
I next open the DMR section of Tree and subsections (DMR Information, Individual ID list, Group ID list). Under DMR Information I check "Unit ID Display on Group Call" so I can see who is calling. I also check "Short Message Stack" so I can review last 32 Individual ID's I received. The rest I leave at default.
DMR>Individual List: When you click on "Individual ID List" you should see a blank "List Number" 1 w/ box to the right showing total allowed in list and number actually used. Look at the next to very top wide bar you should see "List Partition" with colored cards icon above. Click on this and you will open a separate small window Labeled "List Partition". There will be several tabs so select DMR which will reveal 3 sections: Individual ID list, Group ID list, and Status List. I'm only interested in Individual and Group. If you run the sliders down you will see a maximum of 32 lists in each category. All the reserved space combined cannot exceed memory of radio (1,500 I think). I start with Group ID list. My local DMR statewide repeater network uses primarily 7 TG's (GID's) and a dozen more used by individual repeaters so I partition Group ID list #1 to a "quantity" of 25 to hold those with a few spare spaces. If I misjudge I can change the list size anytime. I can partition more lists for different uses such as a repeater or repeater system that uses different GID's (TG). You could put everything in 1 list but you will have a lot to look through if you want to select a GID manually from front panel. Some thought and planning should go into this. If I'm on a channel then I can only manually select from the list associated with the "system" that channel was created in (will make sense later). Any of the 32 GID lists can be a "Receive Group List" (In Moto, you could create all the receive group lists you want but no more than 15 TG's in each. Kenwood you have only 32 potential lists but as many GID' (TG) in those lists as you want up to capacity of radio memory). This is where planning comes in if you want to do creative stuff. The further limitation of Kenwood is that you choose 1 GID, 1 Indiv ID, and 1 Status list for a given "SYSTEM" (you could use GID list 5, individual list 1 or any combination of lists you have created and populated). In Moto you can do per channel (MODE) as opposed to per SYSTEM. For tricky use of receive groups you may find yourself creating lots of systems (limit 128??) ---Don't think too hard about this just yet.
For the Individual List you might want to make a single large partition of all remaining space (after the GID lists you make) so you can put in all of the HAMs ID's you can up to full memory. If this is List 1 and all of your DMR SYSTEMS are HAM then you would select List 1 for Individual ID's on each of them.
Big Difference between Moto and NX: In Moto the name of the ID is what the radio focuses on and sorts by. In NX it is the List number and the numerical position on that list of the ID that the radio references. So, If you create a personality (channel, mode) later that uses a GID in list 1 position 5 then that GID has to stay there-- you cannot move things around on a list once those things are being used by other parts of program (personalities, scan lists etc.). So if you want some organization to any list you need to do it from the start. When I manually look for a GID I have to scroll down list positions and look for what I want or if I know the position number I can enter that and jump to it. What you cannot do is alphabetically look for something like Moto does. I organized by easy to remember position numbers such as my club members start at position 20. When wanting club member ID I put in 20 and then scroll down from there to save some time. If you delete a GID you have to leave the space because if you move everything below it up to eliminate the gap everything you move is now out of place and unsynchronzed with everything else. So, get lists right the first time!
Now move up tree to "PERSONAL>System Information". You can rename the System If you like by typing in System Name box. This is where you select system type "DMR" in this case, then signaling which I have at "MDC-1200" (won't actually be used but it won't let you leave it blank) I leave MDC-1200 ID stuff at default. Then you come to "Unit ID (Own) where you put in your DMR-MARC issued ID. Unlike Moto, you can have a different ID for each System but if not needed just check "Global ID" box and all your DMR systems will use it. Unit ID Name not necessary but you could put in call sign or whatever--very similar to Moto.
Personal>Personal Features: Similar to Moto--timers and squelch. The analog part is tied to MDC-1200 functions which we're not using anyway so ignore. Under DMR subhead the first part seems to be concerned with DATA SYSTEM use such as signaling when radio turned on, gps stuff or other status info that gets steered to a particular virtual channel and GID (TG). I don't know much about this or use it so I ignore it with one exception, I checked "Individual Call Acknowledge Request" so when I do a private call I'll get a response from target radio confirming it was found and landed.
Personal>Personal Features>List>DMR: This is where you select ID lists for this particular system. Everything below this I ignore.
Back to Tree: Under Personal Features in tree you will find "Personality" then under that individual Personality(s) This is where you create channels and the page will look very similar to Moto (freqs, cc, ts,) Personality>DMR subhead is where CC and Slot are set. Selcall on PTT is where you put it GID or Individual Call. As you can see it wants you to input list position number to select GID. It will then show the actual ID and the ID name you gave it when you created the list so you can hunt up and down with arrow keys to look for ID by name or numerical value. Somewhat awkward but since I organized my GID list in the first place I know approximate position in list to speed things up.
Below this is a box for Dual Slot Direct mode which is just like Moto tier 2.
Up at top of program page Large Bar has Icons for Add, Copy, Delete,Zone/Channel Information and Group ID range. You can keep adding Personalities or copying an existing one and then changing only the bits that are different (GID TS). This is tedious. You cannot sort after the fact so if a neat freak you may want to consider order. What you can do is insert a personality and delete a personality to do an awkward work around for moving things somewhat. The order doesn't matter ultimately since you can build Zones in any order you want.
Back to Tree Zone/Channel>zone 1>Zone/Channel Information:
This is where you can rename zone 1 to whatever you want and begin process of setting up radio Zones. Zones can use personalities from any of the Systems you have created. You can work with system numbers and personality numbers or you can look by Name in drop downs at each position number.
Zone/Channel>zone 1>Zone Edit
Zone Number box can take you to any zone you have set not just the one you are currently working on so check zone name to make sure you are where you want to be.
Some of the General subhead you can come back to after you have decided how to set up radio ergonomics (buttons, menu etc) .
Zone/Channel>zone 1>Zone Edit>Scan: you have 4 options for each Zone--None, Single,Multi,List.
As implied you can scan this entire zone, several zones, or a custom List of up to 32 items. If you can do moto then setting up zone scan is similar here with priorities and revert options. If you choose list you will have to create a list 1st before proceeding further on this page. You can create a partial list and finish later but you have to have a list with at least 1 item to be able to set this zones list scan. On list scan the priorities etc are set at the list itself.
Again you can use create/delete and copy insert to rearrange zones.
Down Tree to Optional Features: "Optional Features 1" This is somewhat similar to moto and you can play with the options. Different is "Stack". Stack is a 32 slot memory which can record the items shown with a default of newest data overwrites oldest so you have the last 32 caller ID's. At bottom of page under "Other" you can have recording stop when full--no rollover. A lot of stuff on this page I'm unsure as to exactly how it functions. Optional Features 2 seems straight forward if you've done it on Moto.
Tree "Key Assignment" All what you like personally. Notice with the use of function key as well as short press and long press you can set 3 functions for most buttons. You have ability to set up 2 templates so buttons can be reconfigured for system requirements (different map for Analog, DMR or Trunked etc)
Back to Tree "Scan" Site roaming is not functional on DMR or so I've been told. I don't use Multizone scan but it appears that any zone set for Multi is scanned. I don't think you can have a few in one multi group and others in a different one---just one multi group. For Scan List, pay attention to List Number at
top so you know you are in the correct list. After making scan Lists go back and select List under "Zone Edit" part of Zone/Channel.
Group Receive: Go to Personality (where you enter freqs,cc etc) that you want to do group receive and down under DMR section just below Selcall on PTT box you will see a checkbox labeled "Group ID Scan (DMR). If you check this then this personality will look at the entire GID list associated with the system it is a part of. "Personal>System>Personal Features>List>DMR>Group ID List Number" Now you know why it requires a little thought on making Lists and figuring what goes in a system.

Using Excel Spreadsheet to do Individual ID Lists:
I copied a blank ID list Tree: DMR>Individual ID List
1. Click to left of position number to highlight row across and the Cntrl A on pc for select all. I then copy and paste this into a blank Excel Sheet (page) This is my template.
2. I used DMR-MARC ID search tool (DMR-MARC Network) and created the list I wanted. I copied the list and pasted it to another excel page (not one with template) where I further organized exactly what I wanted.
3. Using excel tools (I'll assume excel knowledge here) I truncate data to create just two columns, one with ID's and other with corresponding callsign and name up to 14 characters max (limit of radio display). You should not have to enter any data, just formulas. There are many ways to do this in excel but your goal is 2 columns side by side and ID synchronized with call/name.
4. Copy and paste your 2 column data (only copy 2 columns top to bottom, any extra columns copied even if blank will not work) on top of the template you got from radio and then copy and paste that back into The individual list in KPG-D1n where you started from.
 
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