Move CoMIRS From Individual County Trunk List to Areawide Trunks?

[EastCoastSunrise]

I am aware that the system is still predominantly heard out West, and in Cambridge / Boston, however given that a scanner listener could pickup at least one site anywhere across the common wealth, and that the system is currently planned to replace the statewide State Police Trunk. I think it makes sense to move it to the Areawide section of the database. I understand that there was a rational to putting it in each counties trunked systems list when the system first came online and only had coverage out west. But now that it seems to cover West to East (Cape possibly not included) and carries several regional talk groups (Yes I am aware that most, if not all of them are still simulcast to their respective talk group on the old trunk), I consider it to be an areawide system at this point, and I am sure in the next few years it will continue to expand coverage, covering more of the state. Plus this move should make it easier for people to find the system and add it to their scanners, which I for one feel is a benefit for all.

I am interested to hear from the community however, whether or not this would be a good move. I just pose it as a question as it would be a big move and I am sure that others have valid concerns as to why this is a bad idea.

EastCoastSunrise

 

[StoliRaz]

I am aware that the system is still predominantly heard out West, and in Cambridge / Boston, however given that a scanner listener could pickup at least one site anywhere across the common wealth

I can confirm that you can't receive jack squat on the digital CoMIRS system from Bristol Co. and southern Norfolk Co. The 700 overlay basically only goes out to 128. If you receive outside of that, you're lucky. When it's all built out I believe it'll be regional simulcast systems. No more listening to troop A from New Bedford

 

[KC1UA]

The build-out of this system appears to have been delayed for at least two years from the original plan. As mentioned there is ZERO activity south of the metro Boston area. What was supposed to be online in 2023 won't be until at least 2025. This is Massachusetts and par for the course. I could go on and on about this in another aspect but I'll refrain.

My area, Barnstable County, was supposed to be the next area to come online. I don't know if that's still the gameplan but it is FAR from being a statewide system.

 

[pm1502]

I can confirm that you can't receive jack squat on the digital CoMIRS system from Bristol Co. and southern Norfolk Co. The 700 overlay basically only goes out to 128. If you receive outside of that, you're lucky. When it's all built out I believe it'll be regional simulcast systems. No more listening to troop A from New Bedford

Yes, I agree. Nothing in Worcester either.

 

[W1KNE]

I am aware that the system is still predominantly heard out West, and in Cambridge / Boston, however given that a scanner listener could pickup at least one site anywhere across the common wealth, and that the system is currently planned to replace the statewide State Police Trunk. I think it makes sense to move it to the Areawide section of the database. I understand that there was a rational to putting it in each counties trunked systems list when the system first came online and only had coverage out west. But now that it seems to cover West to East (Cape possibly not included) and carries several regional talk groups (Yes I am aware that most, if not all of them are still simulcast to their respective talk group on the old trunk), I consider it to be an areawide system at this point, and I am sure in the next few years it will continue to expand coverage, covering more of the state. Plus this move should make it easier for people to find the system and add it to their scanners, which I for one feel is a benefit for all.

I am interested to hear from the community however, whether or not this would be a good move. I just pose it as a question as it would be a big move and I am sure that others have valid concerns as to why this is a bad idea.

EastCoastSunrise

So I am going to tell you the official Radio Reference policy, and this is why I will not be changing the way the system is configured.... yet.

Radio Reference policy is that a trunking system will be listed in the counties in which the transmitters/repeaters exist. Right now, there are no CoMIRS transmitters in Bristol, Plymouth, Dukes, Nantucket, Barnstable, or Essex Counties. So thus, there is no coverage into those counties.

When CoMIRS expands beyond the present seven counties, and coverage begins, then the system will be added to those counties. When the system statewide turns on, then it will be changed. (Read: When the buildout is complete.)

You are free to adjust your monitoring of your scanner to hear it outside of the area, using the favorites lists. But that is the official policy.
I don't think people are having any trouble adding it to their scanners now as it is.

 

[rosecitytransit]

The 700 overlay basically only goes out to 128

I've had at least halfway decent success in Sharon, and that's on the ground floor on the side facing away from Boston, albeit with 800 mHz antennas and SDRs. You can hear some examples here: OpenMHz Just waiting to get the hardware issues worked out so I can get it working.

 

[garys]

Thus has it ever been with municipal and state projects in MA. Over schedule and over budget. Look at the MBTA Green LIne and the Route 140 interchange project on Route 24. The BPD conversion to P25 appears to be behind schedule as does the Boston P25 city services trunk.

The build-out of this system appears to have been delayed for at least two years from the original plan. As mentioned there is ZERO activity south of the metro Boston area. What was supposed to be online in 2023 won't be until at least 2025. This is Massachusetts and par for the course. I could go on and on about this in another aspect but I'll refrain.

My area, Barnstable County, was supposed to be the next area to come online. I don't know if that's still the gameplan but it is FAR from being a statewide system.

 

[garys]

That's because there is a site on Big Blue. I have no problem hearing it down 138 well into Easton.

I've had at least halfway decent success in Sharon, and that's on the ground floor on the side facing away from Boston, albeit with 800 mHz antennas and SDRs. You can hear some examples here: OpenMHz Just waiting to get the hardware issues worked out so I can get it working.

 

[StoliRaz]

I've had at least halfway decent success in Sharon, and that's on the ground floor on the side facing away from Boston, albeit with 800 mHz antennas and SDRs. You can hear some examples here: OpenMHz Just waiting to get the hardware issues worked out so I can get it working.

Yeah, no luck once Moose Hill obstructs your entire view to the north down here 😔

 

[StoliRaz]

Thus has it ever been with municipal and state projects in MA. Over schedule and over budget. Look at the MBTA Green LIne and the Route 140 interchange project on Route 24. The BPD conversion to P25 appears to be behind schedule as does the Boston P25 city services trunk.

Knowing this stupid state and how they wrap everything tightly in red tape and all have their hands in the pot, by the time their radio upgrades are completed they'll be obsolete 😂🤣

 

[cg]

They are anticipating the Cape and SE (1A) areas being switched on in early 2025.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/dtc-20-1-state-911-department-fy-2023-comirs-annual-report/download

 

[garys]

Remember the I-91/I-95 Interchange in New Haven?

They are anticipating the Cape and SE (1A) areas being switched on in early 2025.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/dtc-20-1-state-911-department-fy-2023-comirs-annual-report/download

 

[garys]

The new system will be much more "granular" as I call it. I'm sure that there is technical name for that, but unless a unit from outside the area affiliates with a TG in it's "home" (again my term) campus, you won't hear them.

No more listening to Troop B on Zone 8 on Route 24 either.

I can confirm that you can't receive jack squat on the digital CoMIRS system from Bristol Co. and southern Norfolk Co. The 700 overlay basically only goes out to 128. If you receive outside of that, you're lucky. When it's all built out I believe it'll be regional simulcast systems. No more listening to troop A from New Bedford

 

[AlexC]

Radio Reference policy is that a trunking system will be listed in the counties in which the transmitters/repeaters exist. Right now, there are no CoMIRS transmitters in Bristol, Plymouth, Dukes, Nantucket, Barnstable, or Essex Counties. So thus, there is no coverage into those counties.

You are aware that it's the *SAME* exact system that is the SmartZone system, right? That makes the statement (except for Nantucket/Dukes) completely incorrect. You can hear traffic on COMIRS talkgroups on SmartZone sites and vice versa if they are turned on/allowed on those sites. Same reason why you hear B-PTL-# on both Troop C and Troop B (P25). CoMIRS is in fact statewide and not limited to those counties - RR rules or not, that's just not "how it works" in reality.

 

[garys]

Hang on while I make some popcorn. This is going to be good.

You are aware that it's the *SAME* exact system that is the SmartZone system, right? That makes the statement (except for Nantucket/Dukes) completely incorrect. You can hear traffic on COMIRS talkgroups on SmartZone sites and vice versa if they are turned on/allowed on those sites. Same reason why you hear B-PTL-# on both Troop C and Troop B (P25). CoMIRS is in fact statewide and not limited to those counties - RR rules or not, that's just not "how it works" in reality.

 

[Nascar18]

Yes, I agree. Nothing in Worcester either.

There is CoMIRS in Worcester.

 

[garys]

There is, but only because they use the CoMIRS Astro Core. I believe that the hardware is Harris.

Which is one of the things that drives me a bit nuts about these large systems. Worcester, Cambridge, MassPort, Boston are all responsible for their own equipment, construction, and so on even though they share the core.

So, technically it's all one big network and units can affiliate with any campus.

I think that confuses some people who think that they should be able to hear the Troop B P25 trunk on the Boston 700Mhz overlay. Which of course they can't again unless for some reason a Troop B unit is in Boston.

Enough complaining.

There is CoMIRS in Worcester.

 

[nikronzo]

You are aware that it's the *SAME* exact system that is the SmartZone system, right?

No they are not the SAME system, they are two different core versions and are connected to each other using Motorola hardware called SmartX Converters. Yes they share the same system ID and the ID pools are coordinated so that they work within each other, but they are separated systems on many levels.

So, technically it's all one big network and units can affiliate with any campus.

This is true on a broad level, however you wont find cambirdge fire TGs going over to worcester or B patrol sites. Same way on the analog system you wont find A-PTL-2 or H-PTL-1 on C patrol site 8, the TGs are restricted.

There is, but only because they use the CoMIRS Astro Core. I believe that the hardware is Harris.

Worcester is just another site off the digital Astro system, it utilizes the same core as Massport, Metro700 and B-PTL. It's all motorola, nothing in the Massachusetts statewide trunking is Harris.

 

[GTR8000]

You are aware that it's the *SAME* exact system that is the SmartZone system, right?

Well, no, the ASTRO 25 system is not the "same exact" system as the 4.x SmartZone system. C'mon, Alex, you of all people ought to know better than to make a silly statement like that. As @nikronzo correctly stated, the two systems are interconnected via SmartX site converters, but are most decidedly not "the same exact system".

 

[garys]

That is exactly what I said. They can affiliate, but normally don't.

IIRC, P25 is an open standard, but not open source. Harris equipment can operate on a Motorola core and vice versa. There is some loss of proprietary features. My recollection is that Worcester choose Harris to replace their existing EDACS system. Maybe not, and I'm not that interested that I will dig through years of posts here and on Scan New England to confirm.

ii

This is true on a broad level, however you wont find cambirdge fire TGs going over to worcester or B patrol sites. Same way on the analog system you wont find A-PTL-2 or H-PTL-1 on C patrol site 8, the TGs are restricted.


Worcester is just another site off the digital Astro system, it utilizes the same core as Massport, Metro700 and B-PTL. It's all motorola, nothing in the Massachusetts statewide trunking is Harris.