Moving to Tac 2 or 3 or whatever?

[dan2125]

Listening to a stand off in New Hope MN right now, why in these situations does the dispatch move to Tac channel. Thanks, new here. pro106

 

[N8IAA]

Listening to a stand off in New Hope MN right now, why in these situations does the dispatch move to Tac channel. Thanks, new here. pro106

Generally, to take sensitive traffic off of the main dispatch channel so it won't be tied up with all the chatter involved with the stand off.
Larry

 

[n5ims]

It also provides the 'urgent' traffic from the standoff to have a generally clear channel. You don't want the urgent call about the subject pointing a gun out of the window to be covered up by another officer calling in a traffic stop. Although this is much less the case now, the dispatch frequency was often pretty well known while the tac frequencies were somewhat secret and offered some level of privacy.

Back in the days when scanners had few crystal based frequencies to monitor with, this was significant. Now with 'close call' and other technologies, it's pretty easy to find and monitor them, assuming that they're unencrypted.

 

[Stick0413]

It also provides the 'urgent' traffic from the standoff to have a generally clear channel. You don't want the urgent call about the subject pointing a gun out of the window to be covered up by another officer calling in a traffic stop. Although this is much less the case now, the dispatch frequency was often pretty well known while the tac frequencies were somewhat secret and offered some level of privacy.

Back in the days when scanners had few crystal based frequencies to monitor with, this was significant. Now with 'close call' and other technologies, it's pretty easy to find and monitor them, assuming that they're unencrypted.

Not just close call but the FCC database online.

 

[burner50]

Not just close call but the FCC database online.

Many times they're not licensed

 

[K6CDO]

Many times they're not licensed

Can you cite some examples?

MOST agencies understand that using an unlicensed frequency is just asking for trouble (and not just from the FCC - What happens when the bust of a high profile criminal gets thrown out of court because the defense figured out the agency violated U.S. Code in the process of making the arrest?).

 

[bezking]

Can you cite some examples?

MOST agencies understand that using an unlicensed frequency is just asking for trouble (and not just from the FCC - What happens when the bust of a high profile criminal gets thrown out of court because the defense figured out the agency violated U.S. Code in the process of making the arrest?).

The FCC rules give law enforcement agencies the right to use *any* unlicensed frequency in their area for law enforcement operations with no documentation whatsoever. This is one of the reasons why the FCC database isn't always as reliable as this site...

 

[rescuecomm]

I understood the "use any frequency rule" as being low power (5 watts) and for surviellance activities only.

Bob

 

[bezking]

I understood the "use any frequency rule" as being low power (5 watts) and for surviellance activities only.

Bob

Could be. All I know is that it exists.

 

[K6CDO]

The FCC rules give law enforcement agencies the right to use *any* unlicensed frequency in their area for law enforcement operations with no documentation whatsoever. This is one of the reasons why the FCC database isn't always as reliable as this site...

As I asked before, can you provide an example where an agency is legally doing this, or cite the FCC rule you refer to?

The only rule I have been aware of in my 35 years of coordinating and managing public safety radio systems is 47 CFR 90.20 (f) (5), which reads:

(f) Limitation on number of frequencies assignable. Normally only two frequencies or pairs of frequencies in the paired frequency mode of operation will be assigned for mobile service operations by a single applicant in a given area. The assignment of an additional frequency or pair of frequencies will be made only upon a satisfactory showing of need, except that:
...

(5) A Police licensee may use, without special authorization from the Commission, any mobile service frequency between 40 and 952 MHz, listed in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, for communications in connection with physical surveillance, stakeouts, raids, and other such activities. Such use shall be on a secondary basis to operations of licensees regularly authorized on the assigned frequencies. The maximum output power that may be used for such communications is 2 watts. Transmitters, operating under this provision of the rules, shall be exempted from the station identification requirements of §90.425. Use of frequencies not designated by a “PP” in the coordinator column of the frequency table in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, is conditional on the approval of the coordinator corresponding to each frequency. ...

​

Note that the rule applies ONLY to frequencies listed as 'mobile service' in the section (the Public Safety Pool, - and watch the Limitations in the next column of the Table!), at 2 watts output power, and requires coordination by the appropriate coordinator if the frequency to be used is not designated as a Police (PP) frequency in the Table.

(Coordinators are listed at Public Safety Frequency Coordinators)

So to the extent this section applies, I agree with you. It is not, however, a blanket "right to use *any* unlicensed frequency in their area for law enforcement operations with no documentation whatsoever."

Don

 

[rescuecomm]

How many police WT's are 2 watts? The 2 watt rule is probably for body mics, etc.

Bob