MPSCS Propaganda

[Hoofy]

I just read this update on RR. """News Update Posted on 2006-05-06 02:10:09""" The update makes it sound like the 800 system is the answer to all that is wonderful. It had to have been written by the MPSCS P R department. Less than a minute later I heard a DNR officer check in service in Houghton or Baraga county and say he would be working marine patrol on certain water and would have his cell phone with him because the 800 coverage in that area was pretty ify.

 

[RevGary]

Another big surprise - 800 and iron ore deposits and hills don't mix. Certainly would be nice if the manufacturers would brief the 'administrators' of these shortcomings before they spring for a $20 million radio system that should be used only as a boat anchor. 800 system flaws kill public safety personnel and hopefully the word is getting around to counteract the sales pitch from the comm companies.

 

[Josh]

Well, I dunno if the boats have radios on them or not, but if he was working off of HT--- well, even if not... the system is specified for like 97% mobile coverage- which I'm guessing is LAND coverage. So, let's say the boat doesn't have a radio for MPSCS... the system wasn't designed to facilitate a portable radio to the stringent 97% mobile standard. Of course, over water, TX/RX should be pretty darn good from ship-to-shore.

 

[grizzlyadams73]

Another big surprise - 800 and iron ore deposits and hills don't mix. Certainly would be nice if the manufacturers would brief the 'administrators' of these shortcomings before they spring for a $20 million radio system that should be used only as a boat anchor. 800 system flaws kill public safety personnel and hopefully the word is getting around to counteract the sales pitch from the comm companies.

gee when they tested it worked perfect at the bottom of the pit at the tilden and the empire.

 

[garryd451]

It dosen't matter if you are talking about the manufacturer and/or the disigner of MSPSC Radio Systems, New Cars, New Airplanes, New pacemakerss, etc and etc., the manufacturer and/or designer is going to tell you that their product is great!

love it or hate it, there is a 99% chance that the MSPSC System is going to be around for the long haul.

 

[Hoofy]

What I was trying to say was that the MPSCS shouldn't advertise their system as this great invention called shoe laces and then complain when the customers want laces to go all the way to the top of their boots.

I've heard some of the radio techs up here complain about the DNR wanting to use their radios from out in the woods. Even some of the smoke patrol planes have problems getting into towers.
Yea, I'm sure the system is here for a long time but they're either going to have to add a bunch more towers or develope a high powered handi-talkie that can chop leaves.

Grizzly, I don't think the mines count. They're wide open dishes. The problem is the mineral deposits covered by hilly forested land and rock outcroppings. One of the main problem may be the leaves on the trees. They even attenuate the 2 meter signals.

 

[garryd451]

What I was trying to say was that the MPSCS shouldn't advertise their system as this great invention called shoe laces and then complain when the customers want laces to go all the way to the top of their boots.

I've heard some of the radio techs up here complain about the DNR wanting to use their radios from out in the woods. Even some of the smoke patrol planes have problems getting into towers.
Yea, I'm sure the system is here for a long time but they're either going to have to add a bunch more towers or develope a high powered handi-talkie that can chop leaves.

Grizzly, I don't think the mines count. They're wide open dishes. The problem is the mineral deposits covered by hilly forested land and rock outcroppings. One of the main problem may be the leaves on the trees. They even attenuate the 2 meter signals.

You might be right about all your problems and your complaints.

All I was saying that is no different than any other kind of products including things like pacemakers and artifical kidneys! The maufacuters are trying to sell a product!

And you are also right that some politician talked the State into using this radio systems for all State Departments like the DNR and what the DNR uses this system for is a whole lot different than the State Police patroling I-65, I-75, or I-94!!

 

[n8chb]

I just read this update on RR. """News Update Posted on 2006-05-06 02:10:09""" The update makes it sound like the 800 system is the answer to all that is wonderful. It had to have been written by the MPSCS P R department. Less than a minute later I heard a DNR officer check in service in Houghton or Baraga county and say he would be working marine patrol on certain water and would have his cell phone with him because the 800 coverage in that area was pretty ify.

Get a life Hoofy,

Nobody cares about that area except maybe the black bears in the open garbage dumps.

The system is designed for populated areas not the boon docks.

You live in Gods country why would you want to mess it up with radio towers.


73,

Roger

 

[seamusg]

Get a life Hoofy,

Nobody cares about that area except maybe the black bears in the open garbage dumps.

The system is designed for populated areas not the boon docks.

You live in Gods country why would you want to mess it up with radio towers.


73,

Roger

For a long time even cellphone providers didn't care about that area. The listings for cell coverage in that area are spotty.

 

[wogggieee]

Wow, this turned into a UP bashing thread. Theres no need for that.

 

[Hoofy]

""What I was trying to say was that the MPSCS shouldn't advertise their system as this great invention called shoe laces and then complain when the customers want laces to go all the way to the top of their boots.""

Cellphones....... What's a cellphone ????????

I'm not knocking the system, I'm knocking the way they are advertising it. As far as the system being designed for coverage with mobile radios, that is not true either. I don't know how or who did the testing but there are a lot of dead areas, many are in buildings.

Emergency personnel who work in rural areas shouldn't have to put up with crappy or no radio communications because they were given bad or faulty info about this system.

If the armed robber a couple of weeks ago would have run into a different area the 800 system up here might not have worked at all. Soooooooooo..........

For the safety of our emergency personnel the new policy is: If you don't have radio communications to check out strange people then it's okay to shoot anyone who doesn't look like or talk like a local or smell like a bear......
Ambulance crews will have extra cases of enema solutions for non-locals to prevent any chance of them bringing in any contamination ..........

 

[SCPD]

Digital Communications

Guys:

It's a reality check time here. The APCO-25 digital systems, along with your cell phone, are digital voice. It's the nature of the beast that it is never going to be 100% reliable. If you are up north in the middle of the Huron National Forest, or smack dab in the middle of Detroit, under the shadow of a cell or MSP site, just like your cellphone, it will always be flaky. It's digital voice. This is reality. Digital is great for data communications. If a byte get's messed up, the system sees a parity error, and simply sends it again.

Soon there will be fax machines on fire trucks that will have a blueprint and other info in the hands of every fireman as they roll to the call. Another system already being marketed is an optical reader that will mount on the side of a patrol car. The car will drive down the parking aisles on a shopping center, automatically reading 100 plates a minute, checking NCIC for stolen vehicles, expired plates, etc.

Many in-car video systems are now totally digital. A flash drive in the trunk of the car automatically downloads video data via rf to a hard drive the station when it is near by. (within 1/4 mile, according to an article I read in Mission Critical Communicaitons) No more changing vcr tapes in the trunk.

Digital data applications for first repaonders being developed will be amazing. Some of the stuff that FedEx and UPS are doing now is just as amazing, using handheld data terminals. I read a magazine article where UPS has a handheld data terminal that will automatically choose between which cell phone provider is closest, and use it's network to pass data.

But digital voice is not so forgiving. The data handshake misses a byte or two, and the voice is garbled up. And the system can't go back and retrieve it. It's real-time speech. And as frequencies approach 1 ghz, they will always be spotty. Just like your cell phone. How may people have laid two nextels together on a table, and had one with a green light and one with a red? It's the nature of communications as you approach 1 Ghz. Anything will absorb or reflect the signal, no matter how close to the site you are.

It's just the nature of the beast, guys. Digital voice, combined with using frequencies near or above 1 ghz.

 

[seamusg]

""What I was trying to say was that the MPSCS shouldn't advertise their system as this great invention called shoe laces and then complain when the customers want laces to go all the way to the top of their boots.""

Cellphones....... What's a cellphone ????????

I'm not knocking the system, I'm knocking the way they are advertising it. As far as the system being designed for coverage with mobile radios, that is not true either. I don't know how or who did the testing but there are a lot of dead areas, many are in buildings.

Emergency personnel who work in rural areas shouldn't have to put up with crappy or no radio communications because they were given bad or faulty info about this system.

If the armed robber a couple of weeks ago would have run into a different area the 800 system up here might not have worked at all. Soooooooooo..........

For the safety of our emergency personnel the new policy is: If you don't have radio communications to check out strange people then it's okay to shoot anyone who doesn't look like or talk like a local or smell like a bear......
Ambulance crews will have extra cases of enema solutions for non-locals to prevent any chance of them bringing in any contamination ..........

The big problem is no one wants to put the money into a good system for the UP nor does any one want more towers there. God's country is concidered to be in noware land. The state is not going to put out all kinds of money for an area that can't afford it. All the counties that wanted a system on MPSCS had to pay for it.

 

[Hoofy]

Wyandotte, You missed the whole point.

It really doesn't matter what kind of system it is if it doesn't work for the intended purpose.

We have this inadequate 800 system up here where it does not work well because the MPSCS is publishing propaganda, pushing to sell the system, and not explaining that the system has numerous short comings under certain conditions. They need to sell the system to help pay for it. We have it, we're stuck with it, and the only way to make it work is to build more towers which we can't afford.

There really is nowhere administrators can turn for non-biased info on the 800 system so they have to rely on printed info or presentations put on by you know who.

I really don't think this system would be interagency, interstate friendly in an emergency like Katrina. Michigan had to send down at least one radio tech to handle the reprogramming for just the Michigan troops that went. What happens when it's multiple agencies from multiple states converging on an area. The logistics of just getting the radios programmed and logged in would be incredible.

""The big problem is no one wants to put the money into a good system for the UP nor does any one want more towers there. God's country is concidered to be in noware land. The state is not going to put out all kinds of money for an area that can't afford it. All the counties that wanted a system on MPSCS had to pay for it.''

The problem with that thinking is that all those areas here in the U P are areas where the MSP have jurisdiction and are expected to conduct investigations, searches and in some cases just routine patrol. That jepardizes there own people. I listened to a trooper sent to investigate 2 dead bodies in a camp. They told him to check his portable when he got out of the car. He couldn't get in with it. I believe most patrol officers around here also carry cell phones.

 

[garryd451]

Wyandotte, You missed the whole point.

It really doesn't matter what kind of system it is if it doesn't work for the intended purpose.

We have this inadequate 800 system up here where it does not work well because the MPSCS is publishing propaganda, pushing to sell the system, and not explaining that the system has numerous short comings under certain conditions. They need to sell the system to help pay for it. We have it, we're stuck with it, and the only way to make it work is to build more towers which we can't afford.

There really is nowhere administrators can turn for non-biased info on the 800 system so they have to rely on printed info or presentations put on by you know who.

I really don't think this system would be interagency, interstate friendly in an emergency like Katrina. Michigan had to send down at least one radio tech to handle the reprogramming for just the Michigan troops that went. What happens when it's multiple agencies from multiple states converging on an area. The logistics of just getting the radios programmed and logged in would be incredible.

""The big problem is no one wants to put the money into a good system for the UP nor does any one want more towers there. God's country is concidered to be in noware land. The state is not going to put out all kinds of money for an area that can't afford it. All the counties that wanted a system on MPSCS had to pay for it.''

The problem with that thinking is that all those areas here in the U P are areas where the MSP have jurisdiction and are expected to conduct investigations, searches and in some cases just routine patrol. That jepardizes there own people. I listened to a trooper sent to investigate 2 dead bodies in a camp. They told him to check his portable when he got out of the car. He couldn't get in with it. I believe most patrol officers around here also carry cell phones.

I am not sure if having cell phones in all of the patrol cars has anything to do with the MSPCS radio system.

I live in Pokagon Michigan, Pokagon is in extreme southwest Cass County, half way between Niles and Dowagiac. Dowagaic PD, Niles PD and the Cass County Sheriff's Department all have cell phones in their patrol cars, none 0f these departments have the MSPSC system.

 

[Thunderbolt]

This thread has really wandered off topic!