MRRS System (MTA PD)

[GTR8000]

LTE is spotty all over the area, not just north of Bear Mountain. There are a lot of areas in Rockland and Orange where FirstNet or VZW coverage sucks, and where the county trunked systems are full signal with the phone showing no signal or very, very low and barely usable. That's what a properly built out LMR system gets you...real, predictable coverage even in 'off the beaten path' areas. These agencies relying on LTE for mission critical public safety are out of their minds. Even in areas where LTE coverage is strong, you're still ultimately relying on a private corporation to deliver something reliable, and yes that includes AT&T with FirstNet.

Lots of smoke and mirrors with the MRRS, but some local agencies are taking the bait hook, liner, and sinker. That's fine if they have an actual RF site or two nearby, but most of the sites were never engineered to cover beyond the MTA's properties and right of ways. Low profile, focused coverage, unlike county systems that are intended to provide wide-area blanketed coverage (i.e. 95% on-street).

 

[IFRIED91]

LTE is spotty all over the area, not just north of Bear Mountain. There are a lot of areas in Rockland and Orange where FirstNet or VZW coverage sucks, and where the county trunked systems are full signal with the phone showing no signal or very, very low and barely usable. That's what a properly built out LMR system gets you...real, predictable coverage even in 'off the beaten path' areas. These agencies relying on LTE for mission critical public safety are out of their minds. Even in areas where LTE coverage is strong, you're still ultimately relying on a private corporation to deliver something reliable, and yes that includes AT&T with FirstNet.

Lots of smoke and mirrors with the MRRS, but some local agencies are taking the bait hook, liner, and sinker. That's fine if they have an actual RF site or two nearby, but most of the sites were never engineered to cover beyond the MTA's properties and right of ways. Low profile, focused coverage, unlike county systems that are intended to provide wide-area blanketed coverage (i.e. 95% on-street).

Bronxville is already running into issues with mediocre signal coverage inside buildings

 

[GTR8000]

Shocking.

 

[IFRIED91]

im wondering why agencies in westchester county dont use the brand new UHF P25 system that 60 control is on. Didnt WC PD have a TG on there for the hotline? This system has way better coverage then the MTA/MRRS. I apologize for Going off topic yet again

 

[seagravebuff60]

im wondering why agencies in westchester county dont use the brand new UHF P25 system that 60 control is on. Didnt WC PD have a TG on there for the hotline? This system has way better coverage then the MTA/MRRS. I apologize for Going off topic yet again

Yes, the A66 system has way better coverage in Westchester than MRRS, and I think more agencies should join it, yes, but it's way more complicated than that. Just look at how WCPD spent money to upgrade F1/2 to P25 at almost the same time the A66 system was being built out. That might say a lot to the state of radio operations in Westchester.

 

[IFRIED91]

Yes, the A66 system has way better coverage in Westchester than MRRS, and I think more agencies should join it, yes, but it's way more complicated than that. Just look at how WCPD spent money to upgrade F1/2 to P25 at almost the same time the A66 system was being built out. That might say a lot to the state of radio operations in Westchester.

View attachment 124625

Yeah it definitely does… With all the local jurisdictions doing as they please, Westchester county uses literally the entire RF spectrum when it comes to bandwidth…
Also I noticed Irvington PDs FCC license has expired for sometime now and there where rumors they may be joining the MRRS club

 

[seagravebuff60]

Also I noticed Irvington PDs FCC license has expired for sometime now and there where rumors they may be joining the MRRS club

 

[richee2000]

Getting TG 5175 Full time E , not in DB

 

[dave3825]

Getting TG 5175 Full time E , not in DB

What site is that on? Not seeing it on Zone 1 Simulcast

Still seeing one radio constantly keying up on 9650 as mentioned in post 12. Been ove two weeks now.

2022/07/20 19:05:00 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:00 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:04 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=770.20625-1 12s
2022/07/20 19:05:05 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 1s
2022/07/20 19:05:06 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:08 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:09 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:11 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:12 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:14 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:23 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=773.54375-1 4s
2022/07/20 19:05:24 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:25 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:29 Freq=773.818750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:31 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:33 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:34 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:36 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:06:45 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 4s
2022/07/20 19:06:45 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 4s
2022/07/20 19:06:52 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=770.20625-1 1s
2022/07/20 19:06:52 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 1s
2022/07/20 19:07:22 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 6s
2022/07/20 19:07:22 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 3s
2022/07/20 19:07:26 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864

 

[richee2000]

What site is that on? Not seeing it on Zone 1 Simulcast

Still seeing one radio constantly keying up on 9650 as mentioned in post 12. Been ove two weeks now.

2022/07/20 19:05:00 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:00 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:04 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=770.20625-1 12s
2022/07/20 19:05:05 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 1s
2022/07/20 19:05:06 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:08 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:09 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:11 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:12 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:14 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:23 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=773.54375-1 4s
2022/07/20 19:05:24 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:25 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:29 Freq=773.818750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:31 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:33 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:34 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:36 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:06:45 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 4s
2022/07/20 19:06:45 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 4s
2022/07/20 19:06:52 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=770.20625-1 1s
2022/07/20 19:06:52 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 1s
2022/07/20 19:07:22 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 6s
2022/07/20 19:07:22 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 3s
2022/07/20 19:07:26 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864

View attachment 124706

I didn't catch the site it was a brief transmission.

 

[CqDx]

For 9650, at first i thought it was a patch from a conventional channel to the talkgroup and rebroadcasted in a encrypted fashion, but then I notice it is the same radio ID and some key ups are very brief (1-2 seconds) on a almost nonstop basis which makes me think it is probably a very noisy analog channel that keeps opening the squelch.

the last few days there had been affiliations to 9651,9653 and 9654 as well, all in a new radio ID block of 4250xxx.

Hopefully someone “in the know” can share what agency this is..

 

[CqDx]

Getting TG 5175 Full time E , not in DB

That’s not MRRS, you are picking up Wall PD on NJICS which is encrypted

 

[richee2000]

That’s not MRRS, you are picking up Wall PD on NJICS which is encrypted

I have MRRS downloaded directly from Sentinel. (using TG search) It appears they are using the same control channel?

 

[GTR8000]

I have MRRS downloaded directly from Sentinel. (using TG search) It appears they are using the same control channel?

MRRS and NJICS both use many common state allocated 700 frequencies, so there are going to be conflicts between some of the sites. What you think is MRRS is actually locked on an NJICS site. Gotta pay attention to the details such as what SysID is showing, and of course the other talkgroups that are inevitably popping up that are not MTA.

 

[pro106import]

MRRS and NJICS both use many common state allocated 700 frequencies, so there are going to be conflicts between some of the sites. What you think is MRRS is actually locked on an NJICS site. Gotta pay attention to the details such as what SysID is showing, and of course the other talkgroups that are inevitably popping up that are not MTA.

I get the same thing while monitoring the RI RISCON South simulcast system. They share a couple of frequencies with the Suffolk County P25 system, so I get Suffolk County traffic on RISCON on occasion. Even using my Unication G5 with all of the correct parameters in there. I'm wondering if an end user of the RISCON system using a "real" radio would have the same problem? @GTR8000 ?

 

[GTR8000]

I'm wondering if an end user of the RISCON system using a "real" radio would have the same problem? @GTR8000 ?

Doubtful. The subscribers pay attention to parameters such as the SysID and WACN, which scanners do not. They also typically use the NAC and SysID to validate that the traffic channels are from the system they're supposed to be monitoring (that's specific to Motorola systems/subscribers). Even if two systems share the same control channels and are in range of each other, the radio will ignore the other system because the parameters in the codeplug don't match up with the system it's looking for.

I don't know why the Unication gets tripped up by that, sounds like a flaw in the behavior.

 

[pro106import]

Doubtful. The subscribers pay attention to parameters such as the SysID and WACN, which scanners do not. They also typically use the NAC and SysID to validate that the traffic channels are from the system they're supposed to be monitoring (that's specific to Motorola systems/subscribers). Even if two systems share the same control channels and are in range of each other, the radio will ignore the other system because the parameters in the codeplug don't match up with the system it's looking for.

I don't know why the Unication gets tripped up by that, sounds like a flaw in the behavior.

Yes I was also surprised the G5 gets fooled. I have the actual NAC, SysID and WACN entered, not the wildcards. And only the single CC that the south simulcast uses, with roaming off, even though that doesn't matter with just one CC. Interesting. The only possible explanation I can think of is the RISCON system CC is calling up the frequency that a station from RI is talking on, but Suffolk is also using that freq. at the same time, and I receive the Suffolk system at like -70db so it covers over the RI traffic. I guess the G5 doesn't look at the NAC of the called up frequency, only the CC.

 

[seagravebuff60]

Sorry to keep digging up this thread.

Did anyone ever find out what TG 9650 is? It's still coming in fulltime ENC on the Z3 Simulcast, but not with the same Radio ID as previously mentioned. All Radio IDs I'm noticing are 4250xxx.

Also, as stated by me and many others we know the coverage of this system sucks and was designed for a certain purpose. But I have the Z3 Simulcast in SDR Trunking, and I can't even go 10 mins without going from a perfectly good signal and decode to completely using the control channel, forcing me to go into SDR Trunk and restart the channel every time. Is there something up?

In the last 20 minutes, all I see on 9650 is one radio id, and it has keyed up 30 times and its the only rid seen on that tg.

What site is that on? Not seeing it on Zone 1 Simulcast
Still seeing one radio constantly keying up on 9650 as mentioned in post 12. Been over two weeks now.

2022/07/20 19:05:00 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:00 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:04 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=770.20625-1 12s
2022/07/20 19:05:05 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 1s
2022/07/20 19:05:06 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:08 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:09 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:11 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:12 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:14 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:23 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=773.54375-1 4s
2022/07/20 19:05:24 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:05:25 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:05:29 Freq=773.818750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:31 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:33 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:34 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864
2022/07/20 19:06:36 Freq=773.543750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 2s
2022/07/20 19:06:45 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 4s
2022/07/20 19:06:45 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 4s
2022/07/20 19:06:52 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=770.20625-1 1s
2022/07/20 19:06:52 Freq=770.206250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 1s
2022/07/20 19:07:22 Freq=770.943750 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 Ch=774.28125-1 6s
2022/07/20 19:07:22 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864 3s
2022/07/20 19:07:26 Freq=774.281250 NAC=015 Enc Group call; TG=9650 RID=4250864

For 9650, at first i thought it was a patch from a conventional channel to the talkgroup and rebroadcasted in a encrypted fashion, but then I notice it is the same radio ID and some key ups are very brief (1-2 seconds) on a almost nonstop basis which makes me think it is probably a very noisy analog channel that keeps opening the squelch.
the last few days there had been affiliations to 9651,9653 and 9654 as well, all in a new radio ID block of 4250xxx.
Hopefully someone “in the know” can share what agency this is..

 

[pro106import]

The Westchester site seems weaker to me right now also. I don't usually listen to that one so I can't really compare. Might be just conditions

 

[GTR8000]

If I had to guess on 9650, I would lean towards ESU.