MSP-Centreville

[Neptune]

Just to let everyone know, MSP-Centreville Barrack is supposed to be switching their entire dispatch over to the 800 MHZ system with Queen Anne's County effective 12-13-04. They currently occasionally simulacast on 800 MHZ, but are supposed to be operating entirely on the system on that date. Sorry, I can't advise of the specific talkgroup ID.

 

[ka3jjz]

Just to let everyone know, MSP-Centreville Barrack is supposed to be switching their entire dispatch over to the 800 MHZ system with Queen Anne's County effective 12-13-04. They currently occasionally simulacast on 800 MHZ, but are supposed to be operating entirely on the system on that date. Sorry, I can't advise of the specific talkgroup ID.

According to the database, the correct talkgroup on the Consortium system is 25776. This is an interesting development; most of the other MSP barracks have kept their old 39 mhz equipment for when they are out of range of the 800 system; is Centreville going to tear up all their old low band gear or keep it around for awhile?

73s Mike

 

[Admin0140434]

According to the database, the correct talkgroup on the Consortium system is 25776. This is an interesting development; most of the other MSP barracks have kept their old 39 mhz equipment for when they are out of range of the 800 system; is Centreville going to tear up all their old low band gear or keep it around for awhile?

um, why would they do this... its just, um, dumb

the only time i would ever understand them tearing down the 39 mhz equipment is if/when this lovely state (the WHOLE state) switches to 800 (or the upcoming 700).

 

[ka3jjz]

According to the database, the correct talkgroup on the Consortium system is 25776. This is an interesting development; most of the other MSP barracks have kept their old 39 mhz equipment for when they are out of range of the 800 system; is Centreville going to tear up all their old low band gear or keep it around for awhile?

um, why would they do this... its just, um, dumb

the only time i would ever understand them tearing down the 39 mhz equipment is if/when this lovely state (the WHOLE state) switches to 800 (or the upcoming 700).

It's a well known fact that parts and servicing for some of the older low band equipment is becoming very hard - read scarce - to find, particularly from Moto and several third party vendors. So maintenance costs are a real concern; but that has to be balanced against the cost of ripping out all that equipment, disposal, dismantling towers, ect.
This is the reason much of the Eastern Shore (and some areas like Frederick) are leaving lo band for their fire dispatch relays from their TRS, or in the case of Frederick, leaving it up until it fails, and not fixing/replacing it when it happens.

73s Mike

 

[tolley]

The Easton Barracks (I) is apparently going to be doing the same thing since Dorchester's new Motorola system went into effect. I don't know any other details. I heard the Caroline Co. sheriffs discussing it on the UESC last week when the MSP-I patch (25840) was down.

 

[doctordave]

MSP Centreville will surely not give up capability for low band. The troopers must still have access to all MSP freqs for interaction out of their primary area. Most "S" cars are equipped w/ programmable transceivers w/ 30-512 MHZ operating range (Wulfberg or other) so that they can directly communicate w/ Kent County Sheriff & Chestertown/Rock Hall PD on Kent's VHF-Hi repeater system (159.21 out)....securing repair parts is not an issue, as these radios are state-of-the art, relatively speaking. Incidentally, these radios are also programmed to receive all the important fire/rescue freqs used in the area - everything gets scanned & repeated out to the 155.73 portables. Very handy on accidents, etc.

I would imagine that the patch into 39.8 would have to remain active full-time - otherwise, MSP special service units based elsewhere (Aviation div rotators, ID, ASED, etc) would not have routine, convenient coordination when working in Kent/QA. Also, Centreville Barrack dispaches MSP cars in all of QA & Kent Co, and some parts of Kent are not entirely well served by the existing 800 tower system....yet.

Has anyone identified the talkgroups for MSP "S" tac? We also need to clarify the true/intended nature of some QA Sheriff TG's. When I have been in the area, I have only heard activity on the main dispatch TG for each respective agency.

Dave

 

[doctordave]

Was on the Shore today....MSP Centreville was, in fact, fully utilizing the 800 trunked system without an echo on 39.8. Rarely, the low band freq was transmitted on - and those transmissions were not echoed on the 800 system. Perhaps this is just temporary. For the reasons I cited in the above posting, it would seem quite suboptimal to not simulcast. Anyone have an update on MSP Easton's transmissions?

 

[tolley]

I have a friend who is a trooper at the Easton Barracks and he advised me that they have abandoned the 800 MHZ plan for now. All patches on TG 25840 have been cutoff as well on the UESC. I think one reason Easton stopped their 800 mhz push was because the UESC does not reach into the lower parts of Dorchester County. With Dorchester's new system troopers would have to switch to another zone for communication and thus be offline from the UESC system. This would force the barracks to install a dispatching console that could monitor both systems at the same time. This would cost extra money that the state does not have. Centreville MSP does not have to switch from the UESC system even in Kent County since the UESC covers most if not all of the county. The sames applies to MSP Salisbury and MSP Berlin even though they are on an M/A Com system. Their radio systems cover their counties. MSP Princess Anne is still on low band as well.

If anybody hasn't noticed many towers have been installed throughout the state under the name of MIEMSS especially here on the shore. I think the state is installing the main infrastructure when funding permits. The Motorola XTS radios that many barracks have purchased will operate on 700 mhz as well. I think once enough towers are in place you will see a big push for the whole state of Maryland to switch over to 700 mhz. Thats my theory.

 

[ka3jjz]

I have a friend who is a tropper at the Easton Barracks and he advised me that they have abandoned the 800 MHZ plan for now. All patches on TG 25840 have been cutoff as well on the UESC. I think one reason Easton stopped their 800 mhz push was because the UESC does not reach into the lower parts of Dorchester County. With Dorchester's new system troopers would have to switch to another zone for communication and thus be offline from the UESC system. This would force the barracks to install a dispatching console that could monitor both systems at the same time. This would cost extra money that the state does not have. Centreville MSP does not have to switch from the UESC system even in Kent County since the UESC covers most if not all of the county. The sames applies to MSP Salisbury and MSP Berlin even though they are on an M/A Com system. Their radio systems cover their counties. MSP Princess Anne is still on low band as well.

If anybody hasn't noticed many towers have been installed throughout the state under the name of MIEMSS especially here on the shore. I think the state is installing the main infrastructure when funding permits. The Motorola XTS radios that many barracks have purchased will operate on 700 mhz as well. I think once enough towers are in place you will see a big push for the whole state of Maryland to switch over to 700 mhz. Thats my theory.

Thanks for all that info Brian. Very useful. Looks like I have yet another MSP page change...
Re 700 Mhz; I doubt that's going to come around anytime soon. The big proviso to 700 was that HDTV would cause TV broadcasters to migrate off this band, thus freeing it up for public service. It hasn't happened; the cost of HDTVs is still very high, and relatively few stations are actually using it. The public simply hasn't embraced it; and until it does, broadcasters aren't going to be in any hurry to provide a service the public will not want.
Of course, with the heightened awareness with Homeland Security and so forth, that reasoning may well be more or less out the window too. If the state got money from the Feds to make this happen, then perhaps they're not waiting for a dead duck to magically arise from the ashes.

Interesting development....73s Mike

 

[TinEar]

The UHF TV stations that were/are in the 700 mHz band weren't expected to migrate at their leisure - they were being evicted. The original deadline for that little slice of UHF broadcasters (I seem to remember it's confined to stations above channel 62) to get going was next year. I understand there is talk in the FCC to extend that deadline to 2009. The new TV broadcast medium doesn't call for High Definition service but simply digital service. But if you do one, you might as well do the other.

Yes, it was expected the public would embrace the digital and/or HD revolution - and they certainly are - but not quite as fast as had been hoped. Of course, it's all about price. Although prices have dropped about 50% over the past couple of years, there is still a way to go before "average" income earners embrace the technology. That should begin to happen with more frequency this year as the next generation or two of technology (7G/8G) makes its way to the showroom floor. Prices are predicted by industry analysts to drop considerably within the next few months - perhaps as much as 40-50% of current levels. That'll bring prices to the level that I can start shopping and stop wishing for that 50" plasma screen.

700 mHz for public safety is still a good way (read: >5 years) down the road. Also start thinking the high 300 mHz area which is already being deployed by the military and inadvertantly screwing with garage door openers everywhere. Fifty-million garage doors going up and down in the middle of the night is a hilarious thought - as long as it's not my garage door.

 

[doctordave]

I was quite impressed w/ the UES 800 coverage throughout Kent County...much improved in recent months (perhaps, in part, due to the leaves hitting the ground) - there does appear to be better tower saturation. I can actually copy the system nicely from as far away as Route 695 near Towson.

 

[Neptune]

From what I have been told (by the gentleman that designed Kent County's radio system setup), the State of MD is in fact trying to create a statewide 700MHZ system for the State Police while allowing any other jurisdictions to also participate in the system if they wish. As mentioned, they are in the beginning stages of this by building the necessary towers. Apparently there was a 10 year plan (several years ago) but because the funding for building the towers has been less than planned, the system will take longer to implement.
As for MSP-Centreville on 800 MHZ, as expected, they are having problems utilizing the system (as to be expected because they just jumped right into this plan) and are occasionally switching back to 39.80, which they are obviously retaining until they get the bugs worked out and for other MSP personnel stationed elsewhere that pass through their jurisdiction. Kent County law enforcement is currently trying to obtain 800 MHZ portables so that they can monitor/communicate (they will NOT be switching to the 800 MHZ system any time soon) with mainly Queen Anne's County and MSP, but they are awaiting approval from the UESC.

 

[ka3jjz]

Yes, it was expected the public would embrace the digital and/or HD revolution - and they certainly are - but not quite as fast as had been hoped. Of course, it's all about price. Although prices have dropped about 50% over the past couple of years, there is still a way to go before "average" income earners embrace the technology. That should begin to happen with more frequency this year as the next generation or two of technology (7G/8G) makes its way to the showroom floor. Prices are predicted by industry analysts to drop considerably within the next few months - perhaps as much as 40-50% of current levels. That'll bring prices to the level that I can start shopping and stop wishing for that 50" plasma screen.

I sincerly doubt that prices are going to drop that fast anytime soon. I would think 10% is much more reasonable, not 50%. I would also disagree with the statement that the public is embracing HDTV. The fact is not that many local stations are using HDTV, and of them, not for all broadcasts 24X7, either. To be frank, I don't think the consumer spending is there for it either. If it was, prices would come down faster than they have been.
If the public doesn't demand it (or the Feds don't push them to it), stations simply won't do it. I worked for MPT as a volunteer for awhile, and I am somewhat familiar with the way those things work. Of course, MPT is not NBC, but the politics aren't all that different......

Still though, 2009 isn't all that far off. No contest there. It'll be interesting to see what happens with 700 mhz in this area in any case.

Re MSP Centreville; it doesn't surprise me that they're having some problems. New technology - and to them, it is - always has a few bugs to work out. They'll get there eventually.

73s Mike

 

[TinEar]

I hate to get too far off the topic of this thread but since we've already murdered it...

We'll agree to disagree on the HDTV, or more specifically, DTV numbers Mike. Sales figures within the industry show $20-billion worth of digital TVs have been sold to date and about 1200 TV stations are already broadcasting DTV. Let's not confuse digital with HighDef. The mandate is for broadcasters and manufacturers to switch to digital, not HD. The strange thing is that consumers are buying the High Def capable TVs and only a small percentage are buying the add-on tuner necessary to actually receive HD. They buy the set and figure they're receiving HD. That's the biggest failure of the industry so far. Personally, I don't care if local stations ("Do we have any in Baltimore," he asks facetiously?) change to HD or digital. Local stations and the major networks are becoming mostly obsolete as the watchable/listenable/readable universe has opened up thousands of choices. That trend will only continue. The date for all TV broadcasters to be digital is the end of 2006. That was the drop-dead date selected for 85% of the public to have digital TVs. The other 15% will just go dark if they haven't purchased a new set. That number (85%) doesn't look like it will happen and the date will be extended.

 

[TinEar]

I hate to get too far off the topic of this thread but since we've already murdered it...

We'll agree to disagree on the HDTV, or more specifically, DTV numbers Mike. Sales figures within the industry show $20-billion worth of digital TVs have been sold to date and about 1200 TV stations are already broadcasting DTV. Let's not confuse digital with HighDef. The mandate is for broadcasters and manufacturers to switch to digital, not HD. The strange thing is that consumers are buying the High Def capable TVs and only a small percentage are buying the add-on tuner necessary to actually receive HD. They buy the set and figure they're receiving HD. That's the biggest failure of the industry so far. Personally, I don't care if local stations ("Do we have any in Baltimore," he asks facetiously?) change to HD or digital. Local stations and the major networks are becoming mostly obsolete as the watchable/listenable/readable universe has opened up thousands of choices. That trend will only continue. The date for all TV broadcasters to be digital is the end of 2006. That was the drop-dead date selected for 85% of the public to have digital TVs. The other 15% will just go dark if they haven't purchased a new set. That number (85%) doesn't look like it will happen and the date will be extended.

 

[doctordave]

I'll be interested in seeing what, if anything, develops with the ? pursuit of a statewide 700 MHZ system for MSP....the official position of the most recent MSP Superintendant and thus the agency (via an inside source) was that such a system would be excessively costly and inferior to the current comm system in a number of respects. We now have a new Superintendant, so that could change. While not very flashy, the 39 MHZ system actually is quite reliable in all counties and many MSP cars have newer, multi-band programmable radios - so equipment life is not a concern. If anything, I would think that MSP barracks would simply continue to access the 800 systems of their respective counties...this has proven to greatly optimize coordination w/ other agencies.

I'd also be very surprised if our fiscally responsible Governor would allow any costly investment in such an unnecessary radio system....particularly given the current financial crisis. Time will tell.

 

[tolley]

As mentioned earlier if the 700 plan goes into effect many jurisdictions in the state who have Astro type radio systems could easily migrate to this system especially since the Motorola Astro radios are 700 mhz compatible. I quess for now as hobbyists we can keep listening to the low band for MSP as well as the new APCO25 systems until something new and different comes along. Here's another broad question: When will satellite based communications start to crossover in the mainstream public safety sector?

 

[TinEar]

That's a huge decision for a system administrator to have to make tolley. There are lots of pros and cons that come to mind immediately. I'd love to have position profiling of all my equipment with GPS contributions but I'm not so sure I'd want all my communications to be in the hands of some unknown, faceless group of technicians somewhere in the country that's administering the operation and technical details of the satellite. Does a hack or jamming of the satellite during hostilities put me out of business? Community systems would not be hardened against attack like a military system. On the other hand, I know that a half-dozen attackers or some natural disaster could easily take down my local towers and put my comm system out of business. I suppose my best choice would be to keep the local towers and system in place while using satellite delivered communications - either system could function as the backup. That means compatible systems. Does that capabilty currently exist? I don't know. And could I afford to have both? I doubt it. Hell, most city or county systems can't really afford to even have one system and have it fully equipped. I'd feel extremely vulnerable if I only had satellite comms though. The more you think about it, the more arguments you could make pro or con.

 

[doctordave]

On the topic of MSP....copied JFK Highway troopers tonight using 159.405 for car-car. Will try to capture the PL code.

There had been a previous question about whether this DNR freq is truly in MSP radios. Now we know.

 

[doctordave]

Some weeks ago, 39.8 was silent and all MSP Centreville transmissions were exclusively on 800....was on the Shore this weekend, though, and the barrack was back to simulcasting the 800 comms on 39.8.

Unrelated topic: does anyone ever hear activity on 155.19 (barrack-barrack, primarily)? It was used often back in the 80's when barracks were equipped w/ older telephones that did not have speed-dial capabilities.....I have heard nothing other than testing on this freq in the last 10 years or so. 155.19 also has a history of being used on-scene by the MSP STATE Team.