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Mutual aid frequencies

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RolnCode3

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Well, since we're having our radios reprogrammed (again) the question came up about mutual aid/interoperability frequencies.

The Sheriff's Dept has CLEMARS HI, CLEMARS LO, FIREMARS, FIREMARS 2, and the I-Call and I-Tac 1 thru 4 programmed.

This is what I put together. I'm sure I could go to OES and have them give me all of the info, but it would probably take a while. I have the radio template, but not the info behind it, so I can't verify it. Does this look correct? I'm just trying to make it easier on the radio guys so they can do the programming quickly.

The descriptions with "DIR" in them can be changed from repeated to direct on the portable, so I included the TX for repeated functioning. BTW-I know it's a mess, but copy/paste from spreadsheets doesn't go so well.

DESCRIPTION TX FREQUENCY RX FREQUENCY CTCSS/DCS TONE
ICALL – INTERNATIONAL CALLING 821.01250 866.01250 156.7
ITAC1 821.51250 866.51250 156.7
ITAC2 822.01250 867.01250 156.7
ITAC3 822.51250 867.51250 156.7
ITAC4 823.01250 868.01250 156.7
CLMRH – CLEMARS HI DIR 821.20000 868.51250 156.7
CLMRL – CLEMARS LO DIR 823.51250 866.20000 156.7
FRMRS1 – FIREMARS HI DIR 868.98750 868.98750 156.7
FRMRS2 – FIREMARS LO DIR 866.91250 866.91250 156.7
 

gccflscan

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Ma

I would put the channels in a simplex too since you may be in a location where there is no repeater for the ICall/ITAC's or want to keep a low profile, etc.. Regardless of the radios having direct ability. I've found users understand goto chanel 8 versus switching from repeater to direct and then getting them to switch back.

Also you may want to set them up as CSQ on receive but PL on tx.

I know that the idea is to use a 156.7 as standard, but you could get in a situation where this may be a problem. So PL on TX, and CSQ on will solve it.
 

b52hbuff

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Here's what I have:
CLEMARS 1 154.9200
CLEMARS 2 154.9350
NA/CLEMARS 3 155.4750
CLEMARS 4 / 5 460.0250
CLEMARS 6 / 7 39.4600
CLEMARS 8 / 9 868.5125
CLEMARS 20 / 21 866.2000

White 1 154.2800
White 2 154.2650
White 3 154.2950
FIREMARS / D 868.9875
FIREMARS2 / D 866.9125

VTAC 1 151.1375
VTAC 2 154.4525
VTAC 3 158.7375
VTAC 4 159.4725
VCALL 155.7525
CALCORD 156.0750
UCALL 453.2125
UTAC 1 / 1a 453.4625
UTAC 2 / 2a 453.7125
UTAC 3 / 3a 453.8625
ICALL 866.0125
ITAC 1 866.5125
ITAC 2 867.0125
ITAC 3 867.5125
ITAC 4 868.0125

BAYMACS 482.3375
 

fmon

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Code:
DESCRIPTION                TX FREQ   RX FREQ   CT/DC
ICALL – INTERNATIONAL CALL 821.01250 866.01250 156.7
ITAC1                      821.51250 866.51250 156.7
ITAC2                      822.01250 867.01250 156.7
ITAC3                      822.51250 867.51250 156.7
ITAC4                      823.01250 868.01250 156.7
CLMRH – CLEMARS HI DIR     821.20000 868.51250 156.7
CLMRL – CLEMARS LO DIR     823.51250 866.20000 156.7
FRMRS1 – FIREMARS HI DIR   868.98750 868.98750 156.7
FRMRS2 – FIREMARS LO DIR   866.91250 866.91250 156.7
Bill, this is copied from your post, placed between code /code brackets, then slightly edited while using Preview Post.
 

RolnCode3

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fmon said:
Code:
DESCRIPTION                TX FREQ   RX FREQ   CT/DC
ICALL – INTERNATIONAL CALL 821.01250 866.01250 156.7
ITAC1                      821.51250 866.51250 156.7
ITAC2                      822.01250 867.01250 156.7
ITAC3                      822.51250 867.51250 156.7
ITAC4                      823.01250 868.01250 156.7
CLMRH – CLEMARS HI DIR     821.20000 868.51250 156.7
CLMRL – CLEMARS LO DIR     823.51250 866.20000 156.7
FRMRS1 – FIREMARS HI DIR   868.98750 868.98750 156.7
FRMRS2 – FIREMARS LO DIR   866.91250 866.91250 156.7
Bill, this is copied from your post, placed between code /code brackets, then slightly edited while using Preview Post.
You rock. Thanks. I see what gccflscan means with the CSQ on receive. It appears we need specific permission from OES for some of these, so I sent them an email. I was hoping to program the radios as direct for those indicated, but include the repeater input as well so we could switch if desired. As long as the info matches, I think I have the info I need.

We'd only be doing the 800 stuff, so the VCall and UCall wouldn't be necessary...just the ICall.
 
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smokeybehr

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In the list, you have the 2 CLEMARS 800 transmit freqs reversed, and if you want to use those direct, you need to program in only the 860+ freqs as TX and RX. If you are using a radio that has a Talkaround switch, then that effectively doubles the frequencies without having to double the programming.
 

K6CDO

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RolnCode3 said:
Well, since we're having our radios reprogrammed (again) the question came up about mutual aid/interoperability frequencies.

The Sheriff's Dept has CLEMARS HI, CLEMARS LO, FIREMARS, FIREMARS 2, and the I-Call and I-Tac 1 thru 4 programmed.

This is what I put together. I'm sure I could go to OES and have them give me all of the info, but it would probably take a while. I have the radio template, but not the info behind it, so I can't verify it. Does this look correct? I'm just trying to make it easier on the radio guys so they can do the programming quickly.

The descriptions with "DIR" in them can be changed from repeated to direct on the portable, so I included the TX for repeated functioning. BTW-I know it's a mess, but copy/paste from spreadsheets doesn't go so well.

DESCRIPTION TX FREQUENCY RX FREQUENCY CTCSS/DCS TONE
ICALL – INTERNATIONAL CALLING 821.01250 866.01250 156.7
ITAC1 821.51250 866.51250 156.7
ITAC2 822.01250 867.01250 156.7
ITAC3 822.51250 867.51250 156.7
ITAC4 823.01250 868.01250 156.7
CLMRH – CLEMARS HI DIR 821.20000 868.51250 156.7
CLMRL – CLEMARS LO DIR 823.51250 866.20000 156.7
FRMRS1 – FIREMARS HI DIR 868.98750 868.98750 156.7
FRMRS2 – FIREMARS LO DIR 866.91250 866.91250 156.7

Bill:

Why haven't you contacted County Communications about the issue?

The SRRCS holds the authorization for each of the users of the system, so no separate authorization from OES should be needed - unless you are not a user of the system, in which case your agency would need an authorization from OES.

Also, some of the channel names are incorrect (and the Law Enforcement types are not authorized to have the Fire/EMS pairs).

CLEMARS 8 = 868.5125 Simplex
CLEMARS 9 = 823/868.5125

CLEMARS 20 = 866.2000 Simplex
CLEMARS 21 = 821/866.2000

FIREMARS = 823/868.9875
FIREMARSD = 868.9875

FIREMARS2 = 821/866.9125
FIREMARS2D = 866.9125

CLEMARS 8/9 and FIREMARS are available statewide
CLEMARS 20/21 and FIREMARS2 are Northen Calif. only.

Don
 

RolnCode3

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I realized I got the CLEMARS frequencies mixed up. That was corrected after I posted this (when I got to work and started talking to people). As I said, I'll ask to have them programmed direct, but include the repeater tones and frequencies so it could be switched if needed...default would be direct, however.

I haven't contacted County Radio because this discussion only came up yesterday. I located an email address for OES, so I sent them an email. I have every intention of talking to the County Radio shop and asking the same questions. We ARE a user on SRRCS.

If LE is not allowed to have FIREMARS...well, you'll have to tell the SO that, 'cus they have them programmed. If the County radio shop will program them, I have every intention of asking for them as well.

I know the alphatags aren't what OES says, but they're what the SO here has, and I would probably just ask for the same programming. It doesn't much matter to me, but simplicity and following the SO are big factors.
 

Uplink

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Has anyone out there actually heard anything good, informative, or usefull, or interesting on Mutal aid frequencies? :confused: I keep trying, and rarely do, then again, maybe thats a good thing and we haven't had a disaster that warrants it. I often wonder if the average public safety officer or FD on the job know they exist? The rare occasions I do hear something, I will hear one agency call another several times, and get no response. (Example: I heard Domiguez Hills campus PD calling CHP today code 10-33, on CLEMARS and never heard a response, he probably figured picking up the phone was faster.)
I guess I just keep them in the scanner in case we get hit by a big quake and pray the guys know how to talk to each other. We know about the weekly checkins on M-AID-5, etc, are these guys just the radio-savy guys checking in?, or the average cop or fireman?
Any examples or freqs out there of a good mutal aid incident, disaster? thanks! :confused::)
 

BirkenVogt

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Typically one of the more obscure mutual aid freqs (some places they never get used and other places they are used on a daily basis as their tac channel depending on which it is) will be used on a large, established incident. What this means is that in the morning briefing the units will be handed a communications plan and will either dial up the "new" freq in their radio or have to program it in, or they will go to the communications support tent and get it programmed by the techs.

It is not generally used for saying "hey I want to talk to that CHP over there, I will dial up this freq". All units be they fire, law, ems, whatever typically only monitor their own dispatch or they scan their dispatch and a few commonly used other freqs.

Because of the lack of familiarity with the less used channels that are available, the first day of any large incident will typically have everybody lumped onto their "regular" tac which is chaotic. But it goes with the incident because the command structure is probably nonexistent too and so everything will be chaotic anyway so no one will know the difference.

Having been to dozens of these types of incidents I would have to say that is just the way it is going to be. There is no way you are going to train Joe Fireman on the more obscure channels of his radio and expect him to keep it in the front of his mind since something like this only comes along every couple of years. He just has too many other things competing for his time, to spend much thinking about this stuff.

Birken
 

RolnCode3

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Same here. Around here, they're rarely used, but when you need them, there's no time to reprogram radios.

Hopefully this will let us talk to State Parks and maybe a few other people, but even I don't anticipate much use out of the frequencies we're asking for.
 

northzone

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RolnCode3 said:
If LE is not allowed to have FIREMARS...well, you'll have to tell the SO that, 'cus they have them programmed. If the County radio shop will program them, I have every intention of asking for them as well.
I sure he will after that response. Don is one of the major players at State OES. He most likely wrote the state mutual aid comm plan and is considered an industry leader in emergency comms :)
 

WayneH

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Sorry, OT

northzone said:
I sure he will after that response. Don is one of the major players at State OES. He most likely wrote the state mutual aid comm plan and is considered an industry leader in emergency comms :)
I thought he retired and is working as a contractor down in SoCal now?

-Wayne
 

K6CDO

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wayne_h said:
I thought he retired and is working as a contractor down in SoCal now?

-Wayne
I didn't retire (yet). After 22 years I left OES and am now at the San Diego Sheriff's Department as Assistant Manager of the Wireless Services Division. I am still a member of the California Statewide Interoperability Executive Committee (CalSIEC), which is in the process of rewriting and consolidating the State's Mutual Aid Radio plans into one document.

Don
 
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Sac916

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Working with a 800mhz trunked radio system for several years, I have yet to use a mutual aid freq (CLEMARS) as a law enf dispatcher. We have 800 CLEMARS available, but no VHF freqs for my department. It would be nice since 7 of the counties around us use UHF / VHF conventional radios. But honestly, the need for mutual aid freqs is shadowed by inter-operability equipment. Equipment that patches two seperate radio systems together, regardless of trunk, conventional , VHF or UHF.

RolnCode3 said:
If LE is not allowed to have FIREMARS...well, you'll have to tell the SO that, 'cus they have them programmed.

K6CDO said:
Bill:

Also, some of the channel names are incorrect (and the Law Enforcement types are not authorized to have the Fire/EMS pairs).
Yes, Sacramento Sheriff ( the SO referred to ) has FIREMARS programmed into their radios. I have no doubt that this is due to the combined services that are shared between Sac Sheriff and Sac Regional Fire. For example, DART and HazMat have full time Deputies as part of the teams. Have I ever heard any legit Sheriff radio traffic on FIREMARS - nope, nothing.




Uplink said:
Has anyone out there actually heard anything good, informative, or usefull, or interesting on Mutal aid frequencies?

I have heard a lot of stake out radio traffic on the 800 CLEMARS channels in the Sacramento valley. A lot of air to ground radio communications. All of it being organized stake outs - mostly Local law, CalMet, and HIDTA stuff. Nothing too spectacular outside of " target vehicle is traveling westbound I-80 approaching I-5 in the #3 lane." woot! exciting stuff!
 
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RolnCode3

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Until recently, I hadn't heard much Fire traffic on FIREMARS. Since it's been patched to Sac Metro A2 for the past month or so, though, I've heard tons. That was to coordinate with outside agencies for all the arson fires they've been having.

I forgot about the cross duties with SSD...the Special Ops guys are on those other teams....

I guess I will never understand the purpose of "mutual aid" channels, if only certain services are allowed to have them. Oh well.
 

Markb

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K6CDO said:
Bill:


Also, some of the channel names are incorrect (and the Law Enforcement types are not authorized to have the Fire/EMS pairs).



Don
Don,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing that says that a LE agency can't have FIREMARS programmed in their radios, they just aren't permitted to use them, right?
In the case above, they could have it programmed as RX only as well......

Mark
 

RolnCode3

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How is it determined who can have the pairs? Is it by agency type, or is it by individual authority (PC 830 etc) sections? As was pointed out above, what about cross-role individuals...Deputies on HAZMAT teams, etc...

Would people like the USFS LE types be allowed to have the Fire pairs, since they (probably) take an active role at fires?

Could anyone point to documents which outline these things? Before I sent that email to OES, I did look around a little...it spoke generally of the purpose of some committees, but didn't seem to get to the nitty-gritty of this stuff.

Rx only is fine...it still doesn't make sense to me, though. When one of the chief complaints in the WTC event was that PD and Fire couldn't talk to each other, why would we continue to propogate those issues?

I would never go around calling other LE officers on the FIREMARS channels (or having them switch to those channels), but if you're at a fire and need to talk to the firefighters, it would only make sense to be able to do so directly. Here in the Metro area, I often place myself on the Fire Tac channels and communicate directly with their units...often MY dispatcher can only raise me by cell phone, as I'm talking directly to and coordinating with the outside agencies.
 
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RolnCode3

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Another old thread, but I am happy to say that the County radio shop gladly programmed all of the mutual aid stuff into our radios. I never heard back from OES, but the County took care of everything, and never questioned any of the requests.
 
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