vawildbill said:
I am sorry you took the post suggesting you take the sticker off the wrong way. It was in no way intended to be a a shot against you. Just something to think about. If you were to be involved in an incident where you used force against anyone justified or not, you will more than likely be sued in civil court. The lawyers will use anything they can to make you look like a gun loving manic who was just ready to come unhinged. Also take into account that most juries are not filled the brightest people around either. I am also licensed to carry, and would never wear anything with with a gun company logo or organization on it when doing so. I sure am not going to do anything to make a lawyers job easier. I guess with me it come down to CYA.
Bill
Once again, I can understand that point. Let me explain why I don't care.
I had an officer sitting at a property doing his reports and his job. He hears some screams and looks to the north through the parking lot and sees headlights and a woman being hit by a truck. He approaches, lemergency lights on, in full uniform with a marked vehicle. During this time, the driver of the truck hits the woman two more times. My officer attempted to stop the driver by turning off the ignition of the truck. At not time did he try and drag him out. the driver got out and immediately started hitting my officer. his mace was knocked away in the scuffle and the guy would not retreat. He drew his weapon, and ordered him to backoff 6 different times. The guy just laughed and continued to come out him kicking and throwing punches. He was told repeatedly, but did not care. my officer pulled the trigger but at the very last second pointed the gun down. We could debate the merits of that, but that is what he did.
The police officer that showed up is NOT in anyway friendly to security. he leaves lineup everynight looking for the next one to put in jail. he has been transferred from divisions before because of his actions against security officers. In front of several witnesses, the person driving the truck was allowed to carry his girlfriend up the stairs, because she could not walk. he then arrested my employee and took him to jail for assault & battery and illegal discharge of a firearm within city limits.
One month later I get sued in civil court for mental anguish, deflamation of character, and assault. One year later and about $10k less the attorney for the plaintiff withdrew as counsel of record because their star witness totally destroyed her in depositions.
Oh yeah, less than one week later, the D.A. declined to file charges, because they could find nothing wrong and C.L.E.E.T. says it never happened as far as they are concerned.
Yeah, there is a bunch of other stuff in there that would make you laugh and make you wonder how someone people could be allowed to reproduce. But that is the short version and it would take several hours of typing to get it all on here.
My point in regards to your post is this: No Glock sticker was involved in this incident, stupid people will be stupid people. As long as I have been in this business, I already know better. A sticker is not going to mean crap. People out there sue for anything.
Instead of using those annoying warning stickers on vehicle's we once used windshield markers like the dealerships use. The guy brought a lawsuit against the company because he had to use a razor blade to get it off and it scratched his windshield. No sticker involved here.
My ex-partner arrested a guy that was intoxicated and swimming nude in one of our complex pools. On top of this he was trespassing. He decided to fight and ended up getting sprayed. Guess what, he sued...or tried too.
My ex-partner and I tried to stop a guy that was beating his wife and had already dropped their baby on a sidewalk. The guy got his hands on my gun and was starting to get it out when his ass kicking started. And he got it kicked good. He tried suing as well.
I could go on and on with these incidents. Not a single one of them involved a sticker on my vehicle. This is a sue happy f*%#ing state. It is almost enough to make you NOT want to get into this business. I am not telling anyone here that they don't know what they are talking about because several in here have given me insight on a lot of issues I deal with daily. However, I do feel as if attitudes would change if YOU were on the receiving end of all this **** that I get hit with as a business owner. You would realize that having 10 different stickers about how gun control means hitting you target would not make a difference.
When you talk about CYA, you have to go on the pro-active side. Not having a sticker to maybe keep someone from thinking you are a gun-toting liberal is not pro-active. That is defensive.
Having received accredited training in weapons retention, low-light shooting techniques, advanced shooting techniques, Use of Force certification (handcuffs, baton, spray, tazer), interviews & interrogations, workplace violence, hate crime recognition, gang recognition, etc... is what CYA is about. I know roughly two hundred security officers here in OKC and the surrounding areas. I know almost ALL of the agency owners as well. I also know the regional supervisors for the biggest company out there. I can ensure you that what gets there ass in court more than anything else is lack of training. There officers receive the state minimum and then go to work with no clue about any of this other stuff. They do something that makes someone want to sue them and they look like a fool in court because they don't know what the Use of Force Continuim is. The lawyer tears them apart in court because they shot their client at 3 in the morning in low light conditions yet they received their training on a bright shooting range. Believe me when I tell you that knowledge is power in this business and that if someone takes me to court I am prepared. I make my employees get the same training that I have. They pay upfront, but after a pre-determined amount of time with my company, they get reimbursed. I have seen countless security officers get destroyed because they shot a guy that was shooting other people or the guy pointed a gun at them. Or they got sprayed or handcuffed wrong and ended up with nerve damage. It drives me crazy listening to how people get screwed everyday. Oklahoma is 5th in the nation for quality of security officer training, yet it needs to be more. CLEET finally made it mandatory for continuing education to keep your license. I have had to do it for a while now because I have the P.I. license as well.
I am sorry. I need to stop because I am going to extremely pissed at people that sue all the time and stupid *******s out walking the street, and the lack of training companies give their employees. Not mad at anyone here though. This place is about learning, and I hope someone walks away from this thread with an understanding of how hard it is out there with or WITHOUT a sticker promoting a certain type of gun. I do everything I can to beg CLEET to add certain training into the state program, but it is the legislators that I have to deal with. I am working on that end of it now.
To everyone here, I understand completely what you have said about the sticker. I also understand that not one single person can post pictures of their setup without a negative comment about something they should do being thrown in. I want everyone to know that I don't care about the sticker because it is not what is ultimately going to be my downfall in court. This I know to be very true.
Thank you
OKC CSI