My First SW Radio and Antenna. A Couple of Questions. (Photos)

[scloyd]

Well there's good news and bad news. Let's get the bad out of the way first. Depending very much on your local environment (do you have AM, FM or TV stations nearby, for example) the longer length may be enough to overload the radio. Too much RF is not something portables in this class are very happy with. You will likely be fooling around with the RF Gain control and switch to see what works best. If you start hearing distorted AM stations- or stations repeating in places where they don't belong - that's overloading. A better quality radio would laugh at it, but portables are simply not designed to handle this.

The good news? The length will make the antenna perform better going lower in frequency. This will make hearing pirates in the 4000-4200 khz and 5100-5200 khz area easier, assuming thunderstorms and the higher summertime absorption on these frequencies doesn't interfere. There are also a number - not nearly as many as there was, say, 20 years ago- tropical band broadcasters that the higher length will make a bit more possible to hear.

As my old physics professor once told me, Nature doesn't give without taking....Mike

Thanks Mike for the response.
I live in a small rural town (pop. 7500) about 60 miles west of Chicago. Our town has a community FM station (100 watts) at the high school which is about 2 mikes from my home.

The bad news doesn't sound so bad considering the small investment. I will leave the 50' antenna up while putting up the 85' antenna and see how it goes. If it doesn't work out, I either go back to the 50' antenna or buy a better radio. I'm into this hobby for only a couple of months and would like to put off purchasing a better radio so soon.

The good news sounds pretty good. I wouldn't mind picking up some pirate radio.

I thought about maybe some sort of antenna attached to the chimney and installing a two way switch. Who knows? I love doing all the research online - this forum, web sites...

Thanks again Mike.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Doubled the length of my PAR EF-SWL and noticed a big improvement in AM and longwave reception.
Generally, the longer the antenna will improve lower frequency reception.
Overload probably won't be an issue given your rural location plus your radio has a RF Gain control that can be backed
off if overload becomes a problem.
Your idea of leaving the existing antenna and switching between the two is a good idea. Oftentimes, depending upon conditions, another nearby antenna will provide better performance.
You still have lots of performance to wring out of your Eton Field... try AM broadcast band DXing at night and FM band DXing during
the daytime summer tropo ducting and sporadic E skip season (the FM RDS is a nice feature for instant ID, it will lock on to a strong tropo or skip signal). If you do want to consider another radio in the future, get one that has single sideband (SSB) capability for utility (maritime and aircraft), and ham reception.
Have fun experimenting with antennas... all part of the radio hobby experience.

 

[ka3jjz]

If you want a quick info on pirates, go here...

Pirates and Clandestines - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Mike

 

[scloyd]

Doubled the length of my PAR EF-SWL and noticed a big improvement in AM and longwave reception.
Generally, the longer the antenna will improve lower frequency reception.
Overload probably won't be an issue given your rural location plus your radio has a RF Gain control that can be backed
off if overload becomes a problem.
Your idea of leaving the existing antenna and switching between the two is a good idea. Oftentimes, depending upon conditions, another nearby antenna will provide better performance.
You still have lots of performance to wring out of your Eton Field... try AM broadcast band DXing at night and FM band DXing during
the daytime summer tropo ducting and sporadic E skip season (the FM RDS is a nice feature for instant ID, it will lock on to a strong tropo or skip signal). If you do want to consider another radio in the future, get one that has single sideband (SSB) capability for utility (maritime and aircraft), and ham reception.
Have fun experimenting with antennas... all part of the radio hobby experience.

You response is encouraging...Thanks

 

[scloyd]

Doubled the length of my PAR EF-SWL and noticed a big improvement in AM and longwave reception.
Generally, the longer the antenna will improve lower frequency reception.
Overload probably won't be an issue given your rural location plus your radio has a RF Gain control that can be backed
off if overload becomes a problem.
Your idea of leaving the existing antenna and switching between the two is a good idea. Oftentimes, depending upon conditions, another nearby antenna will provide better performance.
You still have lots of performance to wring out of your Eton Field... try AM broadcast band DXing at night and FM band DXing during
the daytime summer tropo ducting and sporadic E skip season (the FM RDS is a nice feature for instant ID, it will lock on to a strong tropo or skip signal). If you do want to consider another radio in the future, get one that has single sideband (SSB) capability for utility (maritime and aircraft), and ham reception.
Have fun experimenting with antennas... all part of the radio hobby experience.

My original PAR EF-SWL came with a 9:1 transformer matchbox, if that's the correct wording. Will I need to change that matchbox to something bigger? Also, can I connect two antenna wires to the same matchbox...meaning, if I leave the 50' antenna up and install a new 85' wire, can I connect them both to the same matchbox? Or should I purchase another 9:1 transformer?
Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[MDScanFan]

The impedance of a long wire varies greatly versus frequency across the shortwave bands. Likely ranging from 100 Ohms at some frequencies to several hundred or 1000+ Ohms. The intent of then 9:1 transformer is to reduce the very high impedance peaks (ex 1000 Ohm becomes 111 Ohms) to present the radio with a better average impedance vs frequency.

If you add extra length to the antenna then the frequencies at which they peaks and valleys occur will be different than original length but the 9:1 should still work fine. You may see some frequencies now work a better than others. In addition to the impedance match, the radiation pattern will change a bit with different length long wires.

My suggestion for a first step is to tack on some extra length to your existing antenna a see if you notice a difference. From there you can explore different things.

My original PAR EF-SWL came with a 9:1 transformer matchbox, if that's the correct wording. Will I need to change that matchbox to something bigger? Also, can I connect two antenna wires to the same matchbox...meaning, if I leave the 50' antenna up and install a new 85' wire, can I connect them both to the same matchbox? Or should I purchase another 9:1 transformer?
Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[LouieCT]

Thanks for the suggestions. The Par EndFedz® EF-SWL seems to be the way to go and it's affordable.
Thanks again....much appreciated.

this is the antenna i run, i upgraded the radial to 100 feet and installed a groundbar under the antenna amd it performs great. Good luck!

 

[scloyd]

My suggestion for a first step is to tack on some extra length to your existing antenna a see if you notice a difference. From there you can explore different things.

I have 105' of Flex Wire scheduled for delivery today. My original plan was to run 85-90' to a tree and use the same 9:1 and leaving my original 50' wire up running to the garage. Can I use the same 9:1 for both antenna wires at the same time? Or do I need another 9:1?
Thanks.

 

[popnokick]

Connecting two separate lengths of wire (one 50' and the other 85-90') separated by physical distance from each other to the same terminal on your 9:1 balun would be a MAJOR change to the intended design of your EF-SWL antenna. The possible results are complex and will depend on the distance between the receiving elements, their length, and the phase relationship between the arriving signals. Some signals ... perhaps many... could be cancelled out completely if the two wires are out of phase for that received frequency. Some signals may actually be enhanced. You'll no longer have a end-fed antenna.... it would behave more like a fan dipole with a 9:1 balun feed.... which might be a total mismatch for the fan dipole you'll be creating. Someone with the ability to use EZ-NEC or similar antenna modeling might be able to answer in more detail, but would need more info from you regarding distance between the elements and the height of each. So what to do? Well... try it and see what happens. But if it's worse, then plan on getting a 2nd 9:1 balun, another coax cable run, and an "A - B" antenna switch. That way you'll have two EF-SWL antennas that don't interact with each other. And you can use the A-B switch to click back and forth on any given signal.... selecting whichever of your two separate antennas works best.

 

[WB9YBM]

Your assumptions about connecting to the antenna makes sense, but as the old proverb says, "if it works, don't fix it"--in this case, just leave your wire clipped to the telescopic antenna.

As far as grounding the antenna goes, some kind of lightning/static build-up protection's always a good idea. For good lightning protection, though, there's a bit of a caveat. Lightning has certain RF Components (in addition to DC components), so if an antenna has grounding for the RF lightning component you'll also be grounding legitimate RF radio signals.

Also a grounded antenna at any kind of height will look like a lightning rod--not good if you've got a radio in the mix, even though some kind of grounding can be seen as a "legal requirement" and/or good engineering practices. (To take that a step further: I've witnessed first-hand in the amateur radio community that people with a grounded antenna get clobbered by lightning more often that those who don't ground their antennas--although this is only a very unofficial observation, not some high-class overly funded research by a bunch of Einsteins who will probably come out of the woodwork in droves to argue this point) Personally, if there's a lightning storm approaching I'll take the coax off of my radio and connect it to ground.

The best recommendations I can pass along is to: 1) check with the National Lightning Safety Institute and/or the American Radio Relay League for reference material, and; 2) check with some radio stores (like Amateur Radio Outlet) to see what kind of lightning protection "stuff" is available.

 

[scloyd]

So what to do? Well... try it and see what happens. But if it's worse, then plan on getting a 2nd 9:1 balun, another coax cable run, and an "A - B" antenna switch. That way you'll have two EF-SWL antennas that don't interact with each other. And you can use the A-B switch to click back and forth on any given signal.... selecting whichever of your two separate antennas works best.

This sounds like the plan I'll go with. I'll first put up the 85' Flex Wire and connect it to the 9:1 balun by itself and see how that goes. If alls well, I'll buy a 2nd 9:1 balun for the 50' antenna and a A+B switch. I'll do one thing at a time...baby steps.
Thanks for the help.

 

[ridgescan]

scloyd, I saw where you took the jumper out of the ground lugs a while back on your 9:1 trans. I couldn't see if anyone else or you stated this but I would put the jumper back in. At least here at my QTH, the shorted ground lugs made a better RF ground for me IE best signal-to-noise. I do have my 9:1 mounted on a copper drain aerator pipe up on the roof and it's directly grounded to that pipe.
So add that into your experimentation if you haven't already.

 

[scloyd]

scloyd, I saw where you took the jumper out of the ground lugs a while back on your 9:1 trans. I couldn't see if anyone else or you stated this but I would put the jumper back in. At least here at my QTH, the shorted ground lugs made a better RF ground for me IE best signal-to-noise. I do have my 9:1 mounted on a copper drain aerator pipe up on the roof and it's directly grounded to that pipe.
So add that into your experimentation if you haven't already.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try. Now that everything is up, it's easy to make any adjustments right from the window...no ladder involved.

 

[scloyd]

scloyd, I saw where you took the jumper out of the ground lugs a while back on your 9:1 trans. I couldn't see if anyone else or you stated this but I would put the jumper back in. At least here at my QTH, the shorted ground lugs made a better RF ground for me IE best signal-to-noise. I do have my 9:1 mounted on a copper drain aerator pipe up on the roof and it's directly grounded to that pipe.
So add that into your experimentation if you haven't already.

I took your suggestion and reinstalled the jumper. It certainly did help with reception and reducing noise.
One thing though, I don't notice any difference when the 9:1 is grounded and when it's not grounded...reception seems to be the same.
I will continue to experiment. Thanks

 

[mbott]

Never connect anything directly to the whip. If you get any juice on the wire - even static electricity - it will blow the amp that's usually near the bottom of the whip. Bottom line, it will render your radio deaf.

For anyone new to shortwave radio using a portable, this is radio dependent. Always check the manual for the proper way to attach an external antenna. This is the manual details for the County Comm GP-5/SSB unit for connection and external antenna.

--
Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

Quite true. Radios like the above that need the antenna connected directly to the whip need some care in handling, and for exactly the same reason. One static zap and it's likely the radio will go deaf....Mike

 

[jim202]

I thought I would pass along one thought about connecting one end of an antenna to a tree. Make sure you have some slack in the wire to allow for the tree to move around in strong winds. I had to install a door spring on my dipole antennas because of the 60 MPH plus winds we get here during some of the storms that roll through this area. The trees get to moving around and my dipole antennas were no match for the movements. The smaller the tree, the more movement you can expect.

 

[scloyd]

I thought I would pass along one thought about connecting one end of an antenna to a tree. Make sure you have some slack in the wire to allow for the tree to move around in strong winds. I had to install a door spring on my dipole antennas because of the 60 MPH plus winds we get here during some of the storms that roll through this area. The trees get to moving around and my dipole antennas were no match for the movements. The smaller the tree, the more movement you can expect.

Good point.
Along with a little slack I plan on connecting the one end of the antenna wire to the insulator (on the tree) using a mini bungee...similar to this

Also, the antenna end will be mounted approximately half way up the tree so the sway of the tree won't be as bad as if I installed it near the top.

Thanks

 

[ridgescan]

I took your suggestion and reinstalled the jumper. It certainly did help with reception and reducing noise.
One thing though, I don't notice any difference when the 9:1 is grounded and when it's not grounded...reception seems to be the same.
I will continue to experiment. Thanks

What did you ground it to-just curious? Judging by your pics in post 1 I see your receive wire goes inside the house, and then you have a coax feed line in there? So in essence your antenna feed point is inside right?
My antenna like I said earlier is directly grounded up on the roof to the copper aerator pipe (tested for ground-full grounded) but if I had to ground the feed point inside I'd do a #6AWG solid wire (short as possible) to an outlet lug, or even better, try for a COLD water pipe at toilet or sink nearby if possible. Or you could run a #6AWG wire out the window down to a cold water pipe at the side of the house.

 

[scloyd]

What did you ground it to-just curious? Judging by your pics in post 1 I see your receive wire goes inside the house, and then you have a coax feed line in there? So in essence your antenna feed point is inside right?
My antenna like I said earlier is directly grounded up on the roof to the copper aerator pipe (tested for ground-full grounded) but if I had to ground the feed point inside I'd do a #6AWG solid wire (short as possible) to an outlet lug, or even better, try for a COLD water pipe at toilet or sink nearby if possible. Or you could run a #6AWG wire out the window down to a cold water pipe at the side of the house.

Right now I have a coax cable connected from the 9:1 (outside) running into the house connected to the SW Ext. Ant. lug on the back of my radio. I put the jumper wire back onto the two lugs on the 9:1. I had a ground wire running from the 9:1 down the side of the house to a ground rod. That ground rod is on the opposite side of the house where my electric service ground rod is. I don't think this new ground rod is any help. Near the new ground rod is my garden spigot which I can ground the 9:1 to that. (see pic)


The ground rod in this picture is the ground rod I installed.

Sorry if this sounds confusing. I tried to explain it as simple as possible. Lol.