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My SP50 is more advanced than my model 1 XTS3000

mbnv992

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Well - ok maybe not, but riddle me this - why on earth did Motorola in their infinite wisdom make cheap Radius radios have a blinking green light to indicate the radio is in scan mode. Yet a radio that cost much more the xts3000 model 1 has ZERO indication if the radio is scanning or not. No flashing light, no tone, nothing.
I realize these radios are both ancient but just trying to make a point.
 

chrismol1

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pretty sure the xts can turn on scan alert tone to indicate on/off scan mode, and ive always made scan an ABC switch option. Consumer grade radios love flashy lights and beeps and boops. The amount of cool tones the ht1250/ex600 the professional series has all kinds of musical alert tones
 

mmckenna

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Yep, and for public safety users, especially law enforcement, flashing lights and annoying tones are an issue. The last thing they want is a light flashing or a loud tone when they are trying to be low profile. We had all the tones/led indicators shut off on our officers radios.
 

K2NEC

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Yep, and for public safety users, especially law enforcement, flashing lights and annoying tones are an issue. The last thing they want is a light flashing or a loud tone when they are trying to be low profile. We had all the tones/led indicators shut off on our officers radios.
Unfortunately that's not really an option with trunking nowadays. You need the channel grant tone to be able to tell when you can talk. Out of all the departments near me, I have yet to see anyone wear an earpiece.
 

KG7PBS

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Unfortunately that's not really an option with trunking nowadays. You need the channel grant tone to be able to tell when you can talk. Out of all the departments near me, I have yet to see anyone wear an earpiece.
Nope I have seen XTS 2500s and XTS 5000 on P25 TRS without the TPT. I know a few that are on the SRRCS is Sacramento CA. That have no TPT
 

K2NEC

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Nope I have seen XTS 2500s and XTS 5000 on P25 TRS without the TPT. I know a few that are on the SRRCS is Sacramento CA. That have no TPT
How in the world does that work? How do you know if you can talk if you don't get the tone?
 

K2NEC

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Seriously?
Maybe my brain is just a little slow this morning but every radio I have worked with has the tone on so I'm not too familiar.
Do you just talk and hope that your audio doesnt get chopped off?
 

mmckenna

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Maybe my brain is just a little slow this morning but every radio I have worked with has the tone on so I'm not too familiar
It's selectable by programming. I had all that nonsense turned off on our radios. PD radios would not bonk, boop, beep, bleep or otherwise make any sounds other than power up tone.
As for the rest of the users, Talk Permit Tones were never used. Unnecessary annoyance, in my opinion.
 

K2NEC

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It's selectable by programming. I had all that nonsense turned off on our radios. PD radios would not bonk, boop, beep, bleep or otherwise make any sounds other than power up tone.
As for the rest of the users, Talk Permit Tones were never used. Unnecessary annoyance, in my opinion.
Oh I know its Selectable by programming I just didnt know how the user knew it was ok to talk. If the beep is your indication to talk, how do you know when you're connected to the system?
 

mmckenna

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Oh I know its Selectable by programming I just didnt know how the user knew it was ok to talk. If the beep is your indication to talk, how do you know when you're connected to the system?
If the system coverage is known, system has been designed correctly and the user is properly trained, then it should just work. At some point, our PD decided that they didn't want those noises. We didn't have TPT active on any of our radios. On non-public safety radios, we had system busy tones. PD had the highest priority on their talkgroups and their radios.
 

K2NEC

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If the system coverage is known, system has been designed correctly and the user is properly trained, then it should just work. At some point, our PD decided that they didn't want those noises. We didn't have TPT active on any of our radios. On non-public safety radios, we had system busy tones. PD had the highest priority on their talkgroups and their radios.
So they wont even hear if they get "bonked"?
It makes sense but I'm so used to hearing it that I'm trying to fully understand it Haha
 

mmckenna

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So they wont even hear if they get "bonked"?
It makes sense but I'm so used to hearing it that I'm trying to fully understand it Haha
Yeah, I get what you are saying. In some applications it's nice to get that "bonk out" notification. Usually if the dispatcher doesn't answer, they'd try again. But it's not really any different than a conventional system.
It was their choice, and some agencies may look at it differently. I can absolutely see the value in getting some feedback from the system.
 

NVAGVUP

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Talk permit tone is a requirement on all P25 Public Safety trunked radios (and systems) for which I program. Talking after TPT tone becomes ingrained. The truncation of a voice message during handshake sequence could have life altering consequences in public safety. We go through examples in radio user training. Even the folks who have a Surveillance zone (dark) have tones enabled. Non negotiable IMHO.

The radios (APX's) are programmed for alert tone offset which attenuates the tones and voice announcements (In relationship to voice message.) Most officers wear earpieces and any tones (Including TPT) are not an issue.
 

mmckenna

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Talk permit tone is a requirement on all P25 Public Safety trunked radios (and systems) for which I program. Talking after TPT tone becomes ingrained. The truncation of a voice message during handshake sequence could have life altering consequences in public safety. We go through examples in radio user training. Even the folks who have a Surveillance zone (dark) have tones enabled. Non negotiable IMHO.

The radios (APX's) are programmed for alert tone offset which attenuates the tones and voice announcements (In relationship to voice message.) Most officers wear earpieces and any tones (Including TPT) are not an issue.
Yeah, I agree, it has it's place. Our agency decided against it, though, even with the audio level offset.

But like I said, not much different than using a conventional repeater or simplex. Radio users should be trained well enough to key up before speaking. Usually the dispatchers will remind them if they happen to forget.
 

Firebuff66

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So they wont even hear if they get "bonked"?
It makes sense but I'm so used to hearing it that I'm trying to fully understand it Haha
The state police in our state have no TPT tone on mobile or portables, about 2500 radios.
They have never had it, well since 1998 when they started on trunking
They get an out of range tone and a bonk if they try to talk over someone but no TPT
 

wa8pyr

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It's selectable by programming. I had all that nonsense turned off on our radios. PD radios would not bonk, boop, beep, bleep or otherwise make any sounds other than power up tone.
As for the rest of the users, Talk Permit Tones were never used. Unnecessary annoyance, in my opinion.
We use TPT simply because without it, nearly all of our users would cut off the first couple of words of anything they say. We train them endlessly to take a deep breath after they push the button and before they speak, but it generally doesn't sink in for long.

As for noises and lights, the radios we use now have user-selectable profiles so each individual can turn noises and lights on/off to suit their personal preference, as well as "surveillance" mode which turns off all of them. Everything is on by default in our codeplugs, so it's up to the user to turn noises/lights off if they don't like them.

As far as scan lights, all of our radios have a visual indicator on the display which indicates the radio is scanning; Harris radios also have a blinking green COR light when receiving, conventional or trunked (why Moto can't implement something like that on trunking is beyond me).
 

mmckenna

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As for noises and lights, the radios we use now have user-selectable profiles so each individual can turn noises and lights on/off to suit their personal preference, as well as "surveillance" mode which turns off all of them. Everything is on by default in our codeplugs, so it's up to the user to turn noises/lights off if they don't like them.
Yeah, I like that solution.

What I eventually did was set up one of the Sergeants with programming software and a cable. He's a ham, so he had some knowledge already. He makes some of the changes for the individual officers as needed, including MDC ID changes. Kind of takes some of the pressure off me.
 

NVAGVUP

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As for "non-negotiable", my job is to advise not make policy. Policy comes from the Chief. I'll give them options with the pro's and con's of each, and maybe my advice, and let him decide.
I get it. In my case, a primary function of my job as a "Subject Matter Expert" to ensure mission critical communications operate, meet the needs of responders (and don't make the news!) The difference between "Don't Shoot" and "Shoot" is one syllable. If something ever went bad and leadership is looking for someones head on a stick, it won't be mine because they found out there is a technical tool to ensure the radio user knows when to speak (And it was not implemented) I hope you never have that day.
 
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