• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

My SP50 is more advanced than my model 1 XTS3000

Status
Not open for further replies.

mbnv992

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
548
Location
AZ
Well - ok maybe not, but riddle me this - why on earth did Motorola in their infinite wisdom make cheap Radius radios have a blinking green light to indicate the radio is in scan mode. Yet a radio that cost much more the xts3000 model 1 has ZERO indication if the radio is scanning or not. No flashing light, no tone, nothing.
I realize these radios are both ancient but just trying to make a point.
 

chrismol1

P25 TruCking!
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
1,148
pretty sure the xts can turn on scan alert tone to indicate on/off scan mode, and ive always made scan an ABC switch option. Consumer grade radios love flashy lights and beeps and boops. The amount of cool tones the ht1250/ex600 the professional series has all kinds of musical alert tones
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
Yep, and for public safety users, especially law enforcement, flashing lights and annoying tones are an issue. The last thing they want is a light flashing or a loud tone when they are trying to be low profile. We had all the tones/led indicators shut off on our officers radios.
 

K2NEC

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
2,647
Yep, and for public safety users, especially law enforcement, flashing lights and annoying tones are an issue. The last thing they want is a light flashing or a loud tone when they are trying to be low profile. We had all the tones/led indicators shut off on our officers radios.
Unfortunately that's not really an option with trunking nowadays. You need the channel grant tone to be able to tell when you can talk. Out of all the departments near me, I have yet to see anyone wear an earpiece.
 

KG7PBS

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
599
Location
Sacramento CA
Unfortunately that's not really an option with trunking nowadays. You need the channel grant tone to be able to tell when you can talk. Out of all the departments near me, I have yet to see anyone wear an earpiece.

Nope I have seen XTS 2500s and XTS 5000 on P25 TRS without the TPT. I know a few that are on the SRRCS is Sacramento CA. That have no TPT
 

K2NEC

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
2,647
Nope I have seen XTS 2500s and XTS 5000 on P25 TRS without the TPT. I know a few that are on the SRRCS is Sacramento CA. That have no TPT
How in the world does that work? How do you know if you can talk if you don't get the tone?
 

K2NEC

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
2,647
Seriously?
Maybe my brain is just a little slow this morning but every radio I have worked with has the tone on so I'm not too familiar.
Do you just talk and hope that your audio doesnt get chopped off?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
Maybe my brain is just a little slow this morning but every radio I have worked with has the tone on so I'm not too familiar

It's selectable by programming. I had all that nonsense turned off on our radios. PD radios would not bonk, boop, beep, bleep or otherwise make any sounds other than power up tone.
As for the rest of the users, Talk Permit Tones were never used. Unnecessary annoyance, in my opinion.
 

K2NEC

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
2,647
It's selectable by programming. I had all that nonsense turned off on our radios. PD radios would not bonk, boop, beep, bleep or otherwise make any sounds other than power up tone.
As for the rest of the users, Talk Permit Tones were never used. Unnecessary annoyance, in my opinion.
Oh I know its Selectable by programming I just didnt know how the user knew it was ok to talk. If the beep is your indication to talk, how do you know when you're connected to the system?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
Oh I know its Selectable by programming I just didnt know how the user knew it was ok to talk. If the beep is your indication to talk, how do you know when you're connected to the system?

If the system coverage is known, system has been designed correctly and the user is properly trained, then it should just work. At some point, our PD decided that they didn't want those noises. We didn't have TPT active on any of our radios. On non-public safety radios, we had system busy tones. PD had the highest priority on their talkgroups and their radios.
 

K2NEC

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
2,647
If the system coverage is known, system has been designed correctly and the user is properly trained, then it should just work. At some point, our PD decided that they didn't want those noises. We didn't have TPT active on any of our radios. On non-public safety radios, we had system busy tones. PD had the highest priority on their talkgroups and their radios.
So they wont even hear if they get "bonked"?
It makes sense but I'm so used to hearing it that I'm trying to fully understand it Haha
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
So they wont even hear if they get "bonked"?
It makes sense but I'm so used to hearing it that I'm trying to fully understand it Haha

Yeah, I get what you are saying. In some applications it's nice to get that "bonk out" notification. Usually if the dispatcher doesn't answer, they'd try again. But it's not really any different than a conventional system.
It was their choice, and some agencies may look at it differently. I can absolutely see the value in getting some feedback from the system.
 

NVAGVUP

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
137
Talk permit tone is a requirement on all P25 Public Safety trunked radios (and systems) for which I program. Talking after TPT tone becomes ingrained. The truncation of a voice message during handshake sequence could have life altering consequences in public safety. We go through examples in radio user training. Even the folks who have a Surveillance zone (dark) have tones enabled. Non negotiable IMHO.

The radios (APX's) are programmed for alert tone offset which attenuates the tones and voice announcements (In relationship to voice message.) Most officers wear earpieces and any tones (Including TPT) are not an issue.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
Talk permit tone is a requirement on all P25 Public Safety trunked radios (and systems) for which I program. Talking after TPT tone becomes ingrained. The truncation of a voice message during handshake sequence could have life altering consequences in public safety. We go through examples in radio user training. Even the folks who have a Surveillance zone (dark) have tones enabled. Non negotiable IMHO.

The radios (APX's) are programmed for alert tone offset which attenuates the tones and voice announcements (In relationship to voice message.) Most officers wear earpieces and any tones (Including TPT) are not an issue.

Yeah, I agree, it has it's place. Our agency decided against it, though, even with the audio level offset.

But like I said, not much different than using a conventional repeater or simplex. Radio users should be trained well enough to key up before speaking. Usually the dispatchers will remind them if they happen to forget.
 

Firebuff66

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Messages
561
Location
CT
So they wont even hear if they get "bonked"?
It makes sense but I'm so used to hearing it that I'm trying to fully understand it Haha
The state police in our state have no TPT tone on mobile or portables, about 2500 radios.
They have never had it, well since 1998 when they started on trunking
They get an out of range tone and a bonk if they try to talk over someone but no TPT
 

wa8pyr

Technischer Guru
Staff member
Lead Database Admin
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
6,982
Location
Ohio
It's selectable by programming. I had all that nonsense turned off on our radios. PD radios would not bonk, boop, beep, bleep or otherwise make any sounds other than power up tone.
As for the rest of the users, Talk Permit Tones were never used. Unnecessary annoyance, in my opinion.

We use TPT simply because without it, nearly all of our users would cut off the first couple of words of anything they say. We train them endlessly to take a deep breath after they push the button and before they speak, but it generally doesn't sink in for long.

As for noises and lights, the radios we use now have user-selectable profiles so each individual can turn noises and lights on/off to suit their personal preference, as well as "surveillance" mode which turns off all of them. Everything is on by default in our codeplugs, so it's up to the user to turn noises/lights off if they don't like them.

As far as scan lights, all of our radios have a visual indicator on the display which indicates the radio is scanning; Harris radios also have a blinking green COR light when receiving, conventional or trunked (why Moto can't implement something like that on trunking is beyond me).
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
As for noises and lights, the radios we use now have user-selectable profiles so each individual can turn noises and lights on/off to suit their personal preference, as well as "surveillance" mode which turns off all of them. Everything is on by default in our codeplugs, so it's up to the user to turn noises/lights off if they don't like them.

Yeah, I like that solution.

What I eventually did was set up one of the Sergeants with programming software and a cable. He's a ham, so he had some knowledge already. He makes some of the changes for the individual officers as needed, including MDC ID changes. Kind of takes some of the pressure off me.
 

NVAGVUP

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
137
As for "non-negotiable", my job is to advise not make policy. Policy comes from the Chief. I'll give them options with the pro's and con's of each, and maybe my advice, and let him decide.

I get it. In my case, a primary function of my job as a "Subject Matter Expert" to ensure mission critical communications operate, meet the needs of responders (and don't make the news!) The difference between "Don't Shoot" and "Shoot" is one syllable. If something ever went bad and leadership is looking for someones head on a stick, it won't be mine because they found out there is a technical tool to ensure the radio user knows when to speak (And it was not implemented) I hope you never have that day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top