Mystery or Not??

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ka3jjz

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Sounds like jamming, and given it's way out of the standard broadcast range, I'd hazard a very wild guess that it's Chinese jamming looking for Shiokaze (which can and often does use non standard broadcast freqs)....Mike
 
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screamin72

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Jammer jammed a emtpy frequency.

Sounds like jamming, and given it's way out of the standard broadcast range, I'd hazard a very wild guess that it's Chinese jamming looking for Shiokaze (which can and often does use non standard broadcast freqs)....Mike
This is even more interesting. I think it's a good find. We never know what pops up on the HF bands. I do not know what Shiokaze is. Sounds interesting.
 

ka3jjz

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Interesting, Nick....thanks for the update. I had moved this from the digital forum, looks like I have to move it back....Mike
 

Token

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If you purchase a very expensive software package then you can decode it...
But, you can only decode it when it is not encrypted, which is almost never. When encrypted the best you can pull from it is part of the headers, from that you can sometimes tell how many nodes are in the network, and that is about it.

We used to jokingly refer to unencrypted Link 11 as Link 1 on the rare occasions when we used it that way, of course that is wrong, Link 1 was a totally different animal, it was only a user joke.

T!
 

Token

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Not sure what receiver you are using in that video, but assuming the frequency is accurately calibrated the actual tuned freq of that signal would be about 11016.2 kHz.

The lowest audio frequency tone should be a 605 Hz Doppler pilot / reference tone, and if you look at your video you see that tone occurring at about 800 Hz in the audio bandpass. This means you are tuned about 200 Hz too low.

Does reporting the frequency 200 Hz off actual matter? Not for most listeners, shoot, most listeners are not even sure if their frequency is that accurate, they just read the numbers and assume the radio is right, without having ever checked the radios calibration. However, if you are going to try and decode / demodulate the data you have to have the correct freq. Also, some networks habitually use specific frequency offsets, so getting the frequency correct to 100 Hz or better can sometimes help tie multiple frequencies to one network or source. Knowing as complete as possible and as correct as possible information for a signal (like real frequency) is a ”nice to have” for some listeners, and “I don’t really care” for others (probably most), and a “I gotta have it” for a small segment.

T!
 
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screamin72

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RTL-SDR/Ham It Up Upconverter

Not sure what receiver you are using in that video, but assuming the frequency is accurately calibrated the actual tuned freq of that signal would be about 11016.2 kHz.

The lowest audio frequency tone should be a 605 Hz Doppler pilot / reference tone, and if you look at your video you see that tone occurring at about 800 Hz in the audio bandpass. This means you are tuned about 200 Hz too low.

Does reporting the frequency 200 Hz off actual matter? Not for most listeners, shoot, most listeners are not even sure if their frequency is that accurate, they just read the numbers and assume the radio is right, without having ever checked the radios calibration. However, if you are going to try and decode / demodulate the data you have to have the correct freq. Also, some networks habitually use specific frequency offsets, so getting the frequency correct to 100 Hz or better can sometimes help tie multiple frequencies to one network or source. Knowing as complete as possible and as correct as possible information for a signal (like real frequency) is a ”nice to have” for some listeners, and “I don’t really care” for others (probably most), and a “I gotta have it” for a small segment.

T!
Frequency calibration is kind of coarse. I tell everyone in the description what hardware it is on the video at Youtube. I will repeat. RTL 2832U R820T USB SDR Dongle and Ham It UP HF up converter for the dongle. It's really hard to get precise calibration. have to use default dongle calibration then figure out the correct frequency offset in HDSDR. It up converts to 125 mhz but that's still off. So have to tune to 125 mhz find the center of the frequency then if it is 2khz off at dongle calibration then i just add 1 khz. Yes 1 khz. 125001000hz Seems to work well. thats on AM mode and single

I can get one frequency precise but then it throws another frequency off because the crystal inside the dongle likes to drift a bit. So be happy or don't watch. I disable comments and likes because I don't give a hoot what people think. I just upload for reference and learn something.:mad:
 
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Token

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I can get one frequency precise but then it throws another frequency off because the crystal inside the dongle likes to drift a bit. So be happy or don't watch. I disable comments and likes because I don't give a hoot what people think. I just upload for reference and learn something.:mad:
Maybe you misunderstood the tone of what I was saying, it was not a complaint or a gripe, but posted rather to help you learn the specifics of that signal, since you asked about it.

Possibly disabling comments is not the best way to get information on what a signal is. For example your Cuban Spy Numbers Station video, it would be nice to be able to tell you on that page that the identifier assigned to that signal is HM01, and that the data is not FSK as you describe it there, but is rather 8 tone BPSK. Information on the format can be found here: http://qdg.sorbs.net/qdgatvin_files/DIGTRX.pdf

T!
 
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screamin72

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Maybe you misunderstood the tone of what I was saying, it was not a complaint or a gripe, but posted rather to help you learn the specifics of that signal, since you asked about it.

Possibly disabling comments is not the best way to get information on what a signal is. For example your Cuban Spy Numbers Station video, it would be nice to be able to tell you on that page that the identifier assigned to that signal is HM01, and that the data is not FSK as you describe it there, but is rather 8 tone BPSK. Information on the format can be found here: http://qdg.sorbs.net/qdgatvin_files/DIGTRX.pdf

T!
I didn't ask the forum, what's best for my youtube channel. Your comment on my video is deleted. Comments disabled and will always be on my channel. I post the video on youtube then link it here on a thread so I can get help. I rather see comments here because it is pertinent to radio. I come to RR first then most the time I wont even go to the channel to see any answers or not. So thats a GOOD reason to disable comments. No simpler than that.

Now it's completely disabled just now remembered to clear all the check marks in community settings. It don't matter how many subscribers you have now.

To repeat, in a better tone, my youtube channel is meant for RR forum discussion. I want the replies on RR. It's not meant to be mean just more practical.

Corrections made on the Cuban Spy Numbers Station video. FSK to 8 tone BPSK. HM01 and other names are not official names. Not proven anyway or disproved. Just fan made. Like a gentlemen's agreement. That wont be corrected.
 
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Token

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Your comment on my video is deleted. Comments disabled and will always be on my channel.
I assume you mean the comment I made on your supposed chirpsounder video has been deleted? The video is now “private” so I can’t tell.

Corrections made on the Cuban Spy Numbers Station video. FSK to 8 tone BPSK. HM01 and other names are not official names. Not proven anyway or disproved. Just fan made. Like a gentlemen's agreement. That wont be corrected.
Of course it is your choice to use such widely accepted names or not.

In general there are no “official” names for numbers station, with very few possible exceptions, like the old OLX station.

The designator system you are talking about has been around almost 20 years, since before the end of 1997. They are in very wide-spread use when discussing numbers stations, both inside and outside the hobby. It is the single most common way to ID the majority of numbers stations. They grew as a catalog system from the confusion of previously NOT having a way to tell one number station from the other before that. Often two people, or two groups of people, called the same station different things, and so it was difficult to correlate receptions or to figure out exactly how active a specific station was. I will give a couple of examples.

There are currently at least three different stations, from two different countries, that use a female voice, in Spanish, sending groups of 5 figures. One is called V07 and originates from Russian sources, one is V02a and is Cuban (almost unused today, but still occasionally heard), the other is HM01 and is Cuban. To say “Spanish language numbers station, female voice, sending groups of 5 figures” does not narrow down the list. With the designators a person can know which ones are being discussed quickly and easily, with one master list of descriptions (the Enigma Control List, or ECL). And if I say “Cuban Spy Numbers Station” that can be any one of four currently active stations, V21, M08a, V02a, or HM01, each very different. In order to know which I am talking about I must include details, such as “the Cuban spy numbers station that is sending in Morse code, in groups of 5 figures”, for the station called M08a.

The designator system is a shorthand for discussing these stations, and it does reduce misunderstandings and errors.

I noticed last night in the #wunclub channel you were using the name the “Buzzer” to describe a station on 4625 kHz, that name was originated by the same basic group of people who originated what are currently called the ENIGMA designators for numbers station, and it is also not an official name. That name is a shorthand, an unofficial nick name, that makes it easy to ID which signal you are talking about. There are many signals that buzz on shortwave, but since that name was first published (early 1990’s) people have not had to say something like “the Russian sourced signal on 4625 kHz that is a buzzing sound about 1.2 seconds long with about 1.3 second pauses” to know what was being discussed.

T!
 
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screamin72

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Nutshell translation: We all agree to a name for each type of numbers station so no one has confusion. Number's stations do not identify themselves in the open. Top Secret stuff.

Good mystery.

It gets old listening to the same thing trying to figure out contents of a transmission that makes 200% no sense. Once in a while I might stop on one if active to see if anything interesting can be heard. When trying to solve a mystery for years and years and more years and never broke the code... ahem.. mystery...there's gotta be a stopping point somewhere..stop chasing your tails in circles all ya get is the same thing you started with...nothing. Let the media explain it when one gets busted.

E.A.M.'s are the same but at least they got some interesting way of doing things not some spy numbers same ole format different day and then later to change the format just a little.




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Token

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It gets old listening to the same thing trying to figure out contents of a transmission that makes 200% no sense. Once in a while I might stop on one if active to see if anything interesting can be heard. When trying to solve a mystery for years and years and more years and never broke the code... ahem.. mystery...there's gotta be a stopping point somewhere..stop chasing your tails in circles all ya get is the same thing you started with...nothing. Let the media explain it when one gets busted.
Other than very new listeners who have not learned better yet, I don't know too many hobbyist who actually try to figure out the contents of a numbers station transmission. It is pretty typical of some types of new listeners to have that goal, people who think they bring unique skills to the game when in fact a lot of people have thought the same thing.

Many NS listeners try to figure out which stations are related to which other stations, what ones are from the same sources, and possibly where those sources are. These actions are, for example, how we know the Cuban station in your recording, HM01, is actually Cuban instead of just a mystery. Some people try to figure out patterns in operation. Others try to figure out target areas based on times and propagation mapping. All of those are potentially achievable goals and sometimes it is the puzzle itself, and not the solving of it, that draw listeners.

Also, there have been errors made by the numbers stations themselves. At least a couple of times a numbers station has sent unencrypted text, probably accidentally. The ones I know of are Cuban SK01 (no longer active) and Vietnamese M97, and I have heard there have been others.

Personally I find NS transmissions interesting, however I don't spend much time on them, although I have at times in the past. Of the 800'ish log entries I made last month to my Utilities listening data base only 32 of them were numbers stations and I was actually looking for less than 20 of those. When you look at Utilities you naturally run across the occasional NS. I do, about twice a year, look closely at the South Korean numbers stations for about a month, and I build a prediction schedule for others to use in listening to those stations. I also pay attention to the Vietnamese numbers stations, primarily because few others do, but that has only resulted in 39 log entries in the last 5 months, and that was very possibly EVERY Vietnamese numbers station transmission for both V30 and M97.

Actually I spend a lot more time listening to and analyzing even more boring (to some people) and enigmatic transmissions. I spend a good bit of time looking at radars and sounders on HF. Having been professionally involved with these systems in the past I have a soft spot for them, and like to look at the techniques being used by them. But to many people that makes even less sense than listening to numbers stations. It's OK, it is my time ;)

T!
 
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