• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

$NAC codes on conventional channel

Status
Not open for further replies.

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
Okay, can someone explain to me how this even works...

Looking at the code plug of a MOTO radio, there is a simplex frequency with the TX Network ID of $001 and RX Network ID of $392.

If two of the same radios are programmed exactly this same way, (both with with the TX Network ID of $001 and RX Network ID of $392) how would they possibly break squelch and talk to one another in simplex mode at all?

Does NAC codes in simplex not work like PL/DPL. If i had two radios programmed with TX PL 203.5 and RX PL 192.8 on a simplex channel they couldnt hear one another.

What piece of the puzzle don't I understand that makes this possible with NAC code and not PL?

Thanks in advance,
 

ecps92

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
10,569
Location
Taxachusetts
IF your system is on a Repeater, then the TX is the input to the Repeater
and the RX is what everyone RX's.

IF there is a Talk-Around or Simplex function, then both TX/RX become $392

Okay, can someone explain to me how this even works...

Looking at the code plug of a MOTO radio, there is a simplex frequency with the TX Network ID of $001 and RX Network ID of $392.

If two of the same radios are programmed exactly this same way, (both with with the TX Network ID of $001 and RX Network ID of $392) how would they possibly break squelch and talk to one another in simplex mode at all?

Does NAC codes in simplex not work like PL/DPL. If i had two radios programmed with TX PL 203.5 and RX PL 192.8 on a simplex channel they couldnt hear one another.

What piece of the puzzle don't I understand that makes this possible with NAC code and not PL?

Thanks in advance,
 

gary123

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
1,090
Also If the talkaround button is used then the Rx NAC is automatically selected for use by the transmitter.
 

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
Just to be clear... we're not talking about a situation using a "Talk Around" or "Direct" button.

In the Astro25 CPS software, when you enter the same RX and TX freq the checkbox to have a T/A option is disabled as is the field that populates the Direct or TalkAround $NAC code.

So what I am wondering is if you program the same RX and TX freq and put in a different $NAC code for RX and TX, what does the radio really do?

Does it only TX the TX $NAC code and only open squelch on the RX $NAC CODE or will it actually open on either $NAC code.

I am asking because I have two radios programmed this way and somehow they are talking to one another? If it were a different PL on TX and RX we all know it wouldnt work. (According to the IFR, its transmitting the NAC its really programmed to transmit.)

Any ideas?
 

justintime

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
1
Just to be clear... we're not talking about a situation using a "Talk Around" or "Direct" button.

In the Astro25 CPS software, when you enter the same RX and TX freq the checkbox to have a T/A option is disabled as is the field that populates the Direct or TalkAround $NAC code.

So what I am wondering is if you program the same RX and TX freq and put in a different $NAC code for RX and TX, what does the radio really do?

Does it only TX the TX $NAC code and only open squelch on the RX $NAC CODE or will it actually open on either $NAC code.

I am asking because I have two radios programmed this way and somehow they are talking to one another? If it were a different PL on TX and RX we all know it wouldnt work. (According to the IFR, its transmitting the NAC its really programmed to transmit.)

Any ideas?
Ok, I'm going to try and help out here.

We'll say the "T/A and NAC area" in your CPS look like T-A NAC Demo attached picture except with your frequency.

The way it behaves without the TA Direct/Talkaround check box checked is this: When you key up the radio assumes that you're Direct and uses the RX NAC for the Direct NAC which in your case is 392 instead of the TX NAC of 001.

Now if the TA Direct/Talkaround check box is checked the radio behaves like this: When you key up it will TX the TX NAC of 001 and listen for the RX NAC of 392 because it doesn't assume your Direct because by checking this box you've told it not to use Direct unless you push your Direct button. Then if you push your Direct button it will kick over to Direct and use the RX NAC for the Direct NAC. So, if you used the NACs the way you have them setup with the check box checked you would NOT hear the other radio because they would be TX a NAC of 001 and RX a NAC of 392.

Maybe I made that as clear as mud.

Personally what I would do if the channel is really just a direct simplex channel is change your NACs to be either all 001 or all 392. Then you wouldn't have to worry about not hearing others.
 

Attachments

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
Maybe I made that as clear as mud.
Well, the image you show must not be of a simplex channel (same RX and TX frequency) because in my software when I enter the same RX and TX frequency the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box field is greyed out and not accessable.

It is in that situation that I am asking how the NAC codes behave.

I guess what I am asking is this... in the situation above where the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box field is greyed out - does it use the two seperate NAC codes or does it get too smart for its own good and transmit the RX code?

NOTE:
I am using different radios to test these scenarios and getting different results.
XTS5000
APX7500
EJF5100
 
Last edited:

justintime

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
1
Well, the image you show must not be of a simplex channel (same RX and TX frequency) because in my software when I enter the same RX and TX frequency the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box field is greyed out and not accessable.

It is in that situation that I am asking how the NAC codes behave.

I guess what I am asking is this... in the situation above where the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box field is greyed out - does it use the two seperate NAC codes or does it get too smart for its own good and transmit the RX code?

NOTE:
I am using different radios to test these scenarios and getting different results.
XTS5000
APX7500
EJF5100
On the image I posted that was using the same RX and TX freqs. in a simplex situation.

The test personality I used to take that screen shot was setup as follows. BTW the entry is too long to take a continuous screen shot. So, I decided to focus on that particular area. I might be able to piece something together to show the whole thing.

I made a new conventional personality and set it for ASTRO. Went into the Zone/Channel window entered 136.075 as both the RX and TX frequency. Then entered your NACs as given. I also tested the function of this and various other setups on a XTS 5000, and came up with the results I posted previously.

Now if you start with just a default entry like I did and enter the same freqs. for RX and TX the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box will be greyed out, and the Direct NAC box too. But if you change the TX or RX NACs those boxes will "ungrey" unless you enter the the same NACs for RX and TX.

The following screen shots were taken using a RX and TX frequency of 136.075.

The first one shows what the screen looks like unchanged from default NACs.

The second shows what the screen looks like with your NACs entered.(Using this setup on a XTS5000 will result in the radio TX and RX a NAC of 392 consistently.)

And the third shows what the screen looks like if you enter any NAC as both the RX and TX NAC.

The fourth screen shot shows the setup with the TA box checked. This is the setup where you would NOT hear the other radios on simplex unless you hit your direct button.

I'm also including a XTS5000 codeplug I grabbed from the super site, and have entered some "test" channels for you to look at. Just go to the Zone/Channel area and you can see the entries. The first is DEFAULT which is what it would be if all you did was change the freqs to be the same RX and TX. The second shows what it looks like with your NACs entered as you described. The third shows what it looks like with your NACs and you were to check the TA box. The fourth and fifth show what it looks like when any NAC is entered for both RX and TX on a simplex channel, but I used your two NACs to demonstrate for ease.

In regard to "I guess what I am asking is this... in the situation above where the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box field is greyed out - does it use the two seperate NAC codes or does it get too smart for its own good and transmit the RX code?"

If you were to enter a TX NAC of 001 and a RX NAC of 392 as you have stated. And NOT check the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box the radio will ignore the TX NAC of 001 and use the NAC of 392 for TX and RX.

The reason it acts this way is if you have entered the same freq. for TX and RX, and don't check the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box the radio assumes you mean for that channel to be direct all the time. Which is what its supposed to do. However, I'm still puzzled as to you getting the boxes you mentioned greyed out if the NACs are entered the way you say they are.

If I haven't explained this well enough or you have more questions anyway. You can send me your codeplug if you'd like and I'll gladly take a look at it for you. And of course you can respond back to here or send me a PM.

I do what I can to help out.
 

Attachments

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
It just doesnt make sense why they allow different RX and TX NAC codes on a simplex channel if some radios are going to try to be smarter than the person doing the programming. Just wish I knew which radios behaved this way and which ones didnt.

So, I have given up, the solution will be to the same NAC code ;-) and tell thats the way its going to be!

Thanks everyone!!!
 

gary123

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
1,090
It just doesnt make sense why they allow different RX and TX NAC codes on a simplex channel if some radios are going to try to be smarter than the person doing the programming. Just wish I knew which radios behaved this way and which ones didnt.

So, I have given up, the solution will be to the same NAC code ;-) and tell thats the way its going to be!

Thanks everyone!!!
What might be adding to the confusion is that the coders who wrote the software may not have a complete grasp on direct, talkaround and simplex. Although the 3 options are effectivly the same the coders may make various fields addressable depending on thier interpertation of what the mode requires.
 

justintime

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
1
It just doesnt make sense why they allow different RX and TX NAC codes on a simplex channel if some radios are going to try to be smarter than the person doing the programming. Just wish I knew which radios behaved this way and which ones didnt.

So, I have given up, the solution will be to the same NAC code ;-) and tell thats the way its going to be!

Thanks everyone!!!
Don't give up bud. All this can be a beast sometimes. I can't say for sure if all ASTRO radios will behave the same, but I do know for a fact that the Astro Sabers, XTS 3000s, XTS 2500s, and 5000s all behave the same in regard to using two different NACs on a simplex channel.

As long as you do NOT check the "TA Direct/Talkaround" check box all of the above radios will operate the same way. Which is they will ignore the TX NAC of 001 and use the NAC of 392. So, if they're all programmed like the below picture they WILL all hear and talk to each other.
 

Attachments

Status
Not open for further replies.
Top