National Communications (Hamilton) Motorola/LTR

[mbstone99]

Been trying to figure out these two trunks for the past couple days. Originally I thought this was a Motorola Type II but noticed one of the frequencies to have the constant key up/key down sounds that is part of a LTR type trunk. I have pinned down that some of them belong to a Motorola Type II trunk and at least one of them to a LTR trunk.. this is what I have figured out so far but need help with a few of the frequencies. Thanks for any help that can be offered in advanced.

451.7375 Motorola
451.8500 Motorola
452.1875 Motorola Control Channel
452.4375 Motorola
453.7375 Unknown
460.1375 Unknown
460.2375 LTR
461.4375 Unknown

Matt

 

[Jay911]

Smartzone systems also have the 'mike click' phenomenon familiar with LTR. I believe it's unique to Smartzone in the Motorola world, but I forget why - perhaps one of our resident gurus will be able to answer it.

I was able to identify all the frequencies in my local system by waiting to hear them key up in sequence. Are the other frequencies you listed definitely not exhibiting the key-up phenomenon, or are they just so busy that they don't need it?

One of the frequencies in my system (one per each tower) that did key-up but didn't carry traffic for the system turned out to be sending a CW (morse) ID every 30 minutes for that particular tower.

 

[mbstone99]

National Comm

Hmm that could be it too.. I noticed traffic on the first four frequencies listed when monitoring in conventional mode but none so far on the latter four except for the clicking on and off on the 460.2375.. I am going to have to investigate this further and see what I can find out. Now how would I determine the Spacing/Offset? I am guessing 451.7375 as the base as it is the first frequency used, I am guessing 380 would be the offset as that seems to be the norm, but when checking the spacing between the first four frequencies I get a wide range of spacing.

Matt

 

[Jay911]

Odd setup in TAFL ... most frequencies, even though they are on the same tower (30 Summit Av, Hamilton ON), have different callsigns/licensee IDs..

Output	Input	Lat	Long	ID
451.737500	456.737500	431430	795109	VAX300
451.850000	456.862500	431430	795109	VAX300
460.137500	465.137500	431430	795109	VAX300
452.187500	457.187500	431430	795109	CHF630
452.437500	457.437500	431430	795109	VAX861
453.737500	458.737500	431430	795109	CHC566
460.237500	465.237500	431430	795109	VEK410
461.437500	466.437500	431431	795109	CHF542

(And yes, those all belong to National, btw)

I think I'd treat each callsign group as a separate system until proven otherwise.. but that's just my opinion.

 

[DaveH]

Re: National Comm

Now how would I determine the Spacing/Offset? I am guessing 451.7375 as the base as it is the first frequency used, I am guessing 380 would be the offset as that seems to be the norm, but when checking the spacing between the first four frequencies I get a wide range of spacing.

Matt

Matt,

By the look of it I'd try base 451.000, offset 380, spacing 12.5. The lowest frequency used is not usually the base. If they added a new frequency between 451.000 and 451.7375 (always possible) a base of 451.7375 would cause complications. Let me know if it works. Better still, if somebody with Trunker could take a run at it...

Dave

 

[mbstone99]

Thanks

Thanks I will try that and tomorrow and see what I come up with. With the base as 451.7375 I have been getting a bunch of talkgroups but I will see what I get it the other way.

Matt

 

[jellotor]

I put 451.850 through T4Win back a while ago and didn't seem to get any activity. I ran it for 2 days and I believe it was a Motorola Type 2 control channel.

Perhaps I'll run T4Win on it again this week and see if there's any difference. Unfortunately, I'm not trunker-capable or this *might* be easier to figure out.

 

[mbstone99]

Natl Comm

During the day there is more activity.. Yesterday I was getting the CC on 452.1875 not 451.8500.

Matt

 

[mbstone99]

Another question

You wouldn't happen to know someone who knows how to make the data splicer for trunker in around Hamilton? I've been wanting to get one, whenever I monitored the CC over the past year I used just the sound card/T4win but not getting the results that I hoped to get.

Matt

 

[jellotor]

I'll get T4Win listening to the CC today then and I'll see what I can come up with over the next few days.

What kind of activity did you hear on the talkgroups?

 

[mbstone99]

Talkgroups

The talkgroups I have found so far are, 16, 48, 80, 112, 128, 144, 224, 288, 352, 480, 484, 496, 528, 560, 592, 608, 640, 816. i haven't really listened to them hard as I am working while listening.

Matt

 

[jellotor]

A-ha! I remember why I quit using T4Win to decode that CC! It seems to reliably crash the program after a few minutes! However, in the few minutes when it did work I also saw similar TGs pop up to what you have posted.

Just for chuckles 'n laffs I programmed those frequencies into my 250D with the base 451.000, offset 380, spacing 12.5 as a Motorola type 2 UHF system. It locked onto the control channel fine but did not display any TGs or follow any conversations...though I confirmed with another scanner that there was voice traffic on the frequencies.

Sounds like taxi companies, perhaps a bus line and maybe cable or satellite TV installers.

This system seems like a tough nut to crack...either that or I'm awfully dumb.

 

[mbstone99]

Hmm

I have this system in on my BC246T as 451.7375 for the base, 12.5 for the spacing and 380 for the offset and the talkgroups come up for me. Give that a try.

Matt

 

[jellotor]

Will do.
I'll glean the Motorola system ID and so forth and submit it to the RR Database if you haven't already. Frequencies and TGs can be figured out later.

 

[mbstone99]

Nationa Comm

So far out of all the frequencies listed.. Only the first 4 I have heard traffic on while listening to them in conventional mode.

Matt

 

[jellotor]

Matt,

Got MTrunker32 running and have got some info on the system. It's most certainly a Motorola type 2 system, the SysId is 771a. Like you said Matt, the first 4 frequencies are the only ones that are a part of this Motorola system:

451.7375
451.8500
452.1875
452.8375

I was recieving the control channel on 451.8500 yesterday. I'm going to leave trunker running for a few days and track down as many TGs as I can.

 

[mbstone99]

IDs found so far

Here is a list of the ID's I found so far. I haven't yet taken the time to listen to each of them indivually..

16, 48, 64, 80, 112, 128, 144, 192, 224, 288, 320, 352, 368, 448, 480, 496, 528, 560, 592, 608, 624, 640, 646, 816

Matt

 

[mbstone99]

Oh while talking about trunks

I have also been tackling the Mobile Business trunks in Fonthill as well as the 2 Talk Wireless (the VHF & UHF) trunks in Fonthill and the one Talk Wireless in Hamilton and come up with a bunch of ID's that isn't listed as well.

Matt

 

[jellotor]

Matt,

Are you using decoding software for the Talk Wireless systems? They're LTR, are they not? I don't recall ever hearing of a trunker program that will do LTR, but I have been wrong before.

Most of your TGs look good. I saw a few of them last night when I was confirming the system frequencies. Lots of traffic at 8pm on a Sunday nite!

 

[mbstone99]

Talk Wireless

Ya the Talk Wireless ones are all LTR. All three of them put a good signal out in the Burlington/Hamilton/Ancaster area so I am just using my scanner to peg off talkgroups as I find a new one.

Matt