National Incident Radio Support Cache Updates

[SCPD]

I've completed a major rewrite of these listings, found on the Nationwide Frequencies portion of the database. The National Air to Ground Frequency listing was the most extensively overhauled during this effort. I added a column that shows the source of the information for each frequency and another column showing the state (s) the air to ground frequency is used in.

Since the Northern Rockies GACC did not label the air to ground frequencies they were using in 2012 in accordance with the new national channel name convention, I'm not able to confirm what channel many of the frequencies so I added them in the channel the frequency might be in using parameters I added to the listing.

I put many hours in researching and entering the information. I removed most of the information that I could not find a confirmed source for. I will be updating it as new information becomes available this year. If anyone finds new, CONFIRMED, information please pass it on to me and I will keep track of the edits that need to be done.

In California it looks like a dry, warm winter is in the works, although we have a couple of months to go yet as far as receiving snowfall sufficient to add moisture to the larger dead fuel. We need to keep the wildland fire frequencies in the database current as we may get some action this year.

 

[shanny19]

Nice work on the NIRSC update. It would be nice if someone could update the Database entry http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=7769 to match up to the Wiki entry now that you've got the Wiki up to shape. I wonder if a submission with that request would get any results.........

Since the Northern Rockies GACC did not label the air to ground frequencies they were using in 2012 in accordance with the new national channel name convention,

It saves very little airtime to assign a name, i.e. "AG47" rather than a freq., i.e. "168.125".
(In fact, there are often more syllables in the "air to ground forty seven" than in saying the freq itself.)

On the negative side, it introduces the possibility that if one, just one of the assets in the FTA
has "last year's list", there could be serious communication problems.

 

[SCPD]

Nice work on the NIRSC update. It would be nice if someone could update the Database entry National Incident Radio Support Cache Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference to match up to the Wiki entry now that you've got the Wiki up to shape. I wonder if a submission with that request would get any results.........

It saves very little airtime to assign a name, i.e. "AG47" rather than a freq., i.e. "168.125".
(In fact, there are often more syllables in the "air to ground forty seven" than in saying the freq itself.)

On the negative side, it introduces the possibility that if one, just one of the assets in the FTA
has "last year's list", there could be serious communication problems.

The lack of channel labels on the Northern Rockies GACC information does not allow me to associate a number of the frequencies in use there to the channels in the national plan. There are about 6 frequencies in use up there that aren't used in other GACCs so I tried to guess at where they would be placed on the list of 66 nationwide channels. I ended up with 9 empty slots and tried to guess where to put the unlabeled frequencies. This had nothing to do with what you discussed relative to pronouncing the channel and frequency over the air.

I made a submission for the two categories, the NIFC and NIRSC listings to be combined. The wiki page should be used to change the frequency listings as not everyone opens the wiki to find frequencies.

 

[shanny19]

I probably wasn't clear at what I was getting at. I was suggesting a possible reason WHY the NR chose not to play along with the naming scheme.
Not trying to hijack your thread, sorry 'bout that!

 

[p19997]

Here's more data for you:

A/G 01 - 171.825
A/G 03 - 166.675
A/G 04 - 166.6875
A/G 11 - 166.950
A/G 16 - 167.950
A/G 21 - 168.425
A/G 22 - 168.500
A/G 23 - 168.550
A/G 30 - 171.1375
A/G 34 - 171.7875

Some of the above are "holes" and some are different than what you have.

 

[SCPD]

Here's more data for you:

A/G 01 - 171.825
A/G 03 - 166.675
A/G 04 - 166.6875
A/G 11 - 166.950
A/G 16 - 167.950
A/G 21 - 168.425
A/G 22 - 168.500
A/G 23 - 168.550
A/G 30 - 171.1375
A/G 34 - 171.7875

Some of the above are "holes" and some are different than what you have.

I've seen the same data for these channels somewhere else, but they were not backed up with confirmed sources. What I have is confirmed and shown on the Wiki page. I'm considering all other information to not be well founded until I see a more up to date and confirmed source. AG 30 is on my list with the notation that the authorization for this frequency has been discontinued.

Let me know the source of the data you have listed and I will check it against what I have in hand. If there is something confirmed that can fill in the holes, then I will update the wiki.

 

[SCPD]

I probably wasn't clear at what I was getting at. I was suggesting a possible reason WHY the NR chose not to play along with the naming scheme.
Not trying to hijack your thread, sorry 'bout that!

The naming convention and frequency list is going to be nationwide. I think the direction to change may have come after R1 had published their map. Another possibility is that R1 tends to be the last region in the lower 48 to change anything. They were the last region to implement ICS and only did so because the change was mandatory agency wide.

 

[shanny19]

Exsmokey, PM me your email if you'd like.
I have 2012 info that disagrees with all but one of the freqs p19997 listed, and would
be happy to let you know the source privately so you can make your own determination
as to whether or not it is "confirmed".

 

[SCPD]

Here's more data for you:

A/G 01 - 171.825
A/G 03 - 166.675
A/G 04 - 166.6875
A/G 11 - 166.950
A/G 16 - 167.950
A/G 21 - 168.425
A/G 22 - 168.500
A/G 23 - 168.550
A/G 30 - 171.1375
A/G 34 - 171.7875

Some of the above are "holes" and some are different than what you have.

Ok, lets go down the list channel by channel.

AG01 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG03 - 166.3750 is national air tactics channel 1, but was listed on the Northwest GACC information as Channel 66 National Air to Ground. I don't think the same frequency would be shown twice. The assignment of the air tactics channels indicate that they can be used for air to ground also. That direction was made when very few air to ground frequencies were available and now that there are so many air to ground frequencies assigned, the national air tactics frequencies might get an exclusive assignment as such.

AG04 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG11 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG16 - I have information from the Calif. Interagency Mobilization Plan that this is still considered a national air tactics frequency and is labeled as "Air Tactics 5." I've seen a few other documents that list this frequency as a ground tactical frequency available if the duty officer at NIFC approves. I've seen other information that conflicts with both of these sources. All of this is 2012 information.

AG21 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG22 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

Note: 168.4250 and 168.5000 fit nicely into the lower frequencies having the lower channel assignments logic found in the correspondence previously posted regarding the national naming convention. These two frequencies would follow 168.175 in numerical order. Like many of the rest in your list there is no reference to them in the information of the western GACC's.

AG23 - 168.5500 has been authorized for a nationwide exclusive use as the air to ground for smokejumping and helicopter rappel operations. It is not available for use by any other uses, so its appearance on a list of air to ground frequencies is not logical. I have information from three GACC's that AG23 is 166.7625.

AG30 - I have GACC information that 171.1375 is the frequency of this channel. However, there is correspondence from April of 2012 stating that the IRAC/NTIA authorization for use of this frequency has been terminated. I've not come across any information indicating what the replacement frequency is.

AG34 I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's. I have information from two GACC's indicating the frequency 167.1750 is labeled AG34.

All of this is in a state of flux. I believe the Great Basin GACC's started the naming convention in 2010 or 2011, applying within that area only. I think 2012 was the first year it was adopted for all the western states. There are probably some bugs to work out. The present list does not conform to the naming convention logic shown in the memo regarding this list. It stated that the entire list was to be in numerical frequency order with the lowest frequency named "Channel 1" and the highest "Channel 66." The present list only conforms with that in groups and sometimes not at all.

Stay tuned!

 

[ecps92]

171.8250 formerly Montana MT-02 and MT-09, listed in the past as MT A/G-01

166.6750 A/G-02 might have come from a Document in North Carolina listing as UWHR Air/Ground 2

166.6875 A/G-04 might have come from a Document in Nevada listing this as NV-03 Air/Ground 4 [BLM]

166.9500 was listed in a MOAB document as UT-04 Air/Ground 11 Primary [Circa 2011]

Hope these help, to sort out some of the confussions

Ok, lets go down the list channel by channel.

AG01 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG03 - 166.3750 is national air tactics channel 1, but was listed on the Northwest GACC information as Channel 66 National Air to Ground. I don't think the same frequency would be shown twice. The assignment of the air tactics channels indicate that they can be used for air to ground also. That direction was made when very few air to ground frequencies were available and now that there are so many air to ground frequencies assigned, the national air tactics frequencies might get an exclusive assignment as such.

AG04 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG11 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG16 - I have information from the Calif. Interagency Mobilization Plan that this is still considered a national air tactics frequency and is labeled as "Air Tactics 5." I've seen a few other documents that list this frequency as a ground tactical frequency available if the duty officer at NIFC approves. I've seen other information that conflicts with both of these sources. All of this is 2012 information.

AG21 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

AG22 - I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's

Note: 168.4250 and 168.5000 fit nicely into the lower frequencies having the lower channel assignments logic found in the correspondence previously posted regarding the national naming convention. These two frequencies would follow 168.175 in numerical order. Like many of the rest in your list there is no reference to them in the information of the western GACC's.

AG23 - 168.5500 has been authorized for a nationwide exclusive use as the air to ground for smokejumping and helicopter rappel operations. It is not available for use by any other uses, so its appearance on a list of air to ground frequencies is not logical. I have information from three GACC's that AG23 is 166.7625.

AG30 - I have GACC information that 171.1375 is the frequency of this channel. However, there is correspondence from April of 2012 stating that the IRAC/NTIA authorization for use of this frequency has been terminated. I've not come across any information indicating what the replacement frequency is.

AG34 I did not find that frequency on any of those used for all the western U.S. GACC's. I have information from two GACC's indicating the frequency 167.1750 is labeled AG34.

All of this is in a state of flux. I believe the Great Basin GACC's started the naming convention in 2010 or 2011, applying within that area only. I think 2012 was the first year it was adopted for all the western states. There are probably some bugs to work out. The present list does not conform to the naming convention logic shown in the memo regarding this list. It stated that the entire list was to be in numerical frequency order with the lowest frequency named "Channel 1" and the highest "Channel 66." The present list only conforms with that in groups and sometimes not at all.

Stay tuned!

 

[SCPD]

Thanks to everyone that provided me additional information. I sifted though everything and found another confirmed source. I used this information to revise the list. Now if I can get the frequency lists to confirm everything I've learned about the National Incident Radio Support Cache system. This will take some time.

Remember that the development of this national air to ground list is dynamic. Data from 2011 has likely changed and air to ground frequencies shown in an annual operations plan or on a local frequency list may be in error or were written prior to the changes made to the national list.

I also have new information regarding the standardization of engine models in the U.S. Forest Service. This is going to save money as each USFS region will not require manufacturers to build one of 6 or more different engine models. A national standard for numbering apparatus and how that numbering is painted on the exterior has been developed, which will be implemented as each engine is replaced. I will provide information when I get time to write another thread.