Navajo County Sheriff

DanRollman

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Navajo County Sheriff has been on a 4-site MotoTRBO digital radio system for several years now, but the database still shows the old analog frequencies.

Does anyone have talkgroup/slot/color code details for the current system, or know whether or not it is fully encrypted, and know whether it is trunked or just using IPSC for a multicasted conventional system?

I have not been up that way in quite a few years.

See FCC Callsign WQQU737 (NAVAJO, COUNTY OF) for the MotoTRBO site locations and frequencies

Thanks,
Dan
 

DanRollman

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Incidentally, Greenlee County has been on a MotoTRBO radio system even longer than Navajo County, but the database is still outdated for them too (FCC Callsign WQFR547 (GREENLEE COUNTY)). Pretty sure Greenlee is using a 5 site conventional IP site connect multicast system given only two frequencies (4 talkpaths) per site.

This is interesting to me in part because Georgia (where I live primarily, although I grew up in AZ and still visit often) probably has more rural county sheriff's departments running multi-site MotoTRBO conventional and trunked systems than any other state, and it is interesting to see it catching on in rural Arizona too. There's a lot to like about it, for an agency that can't afford P25 anyway.
 

Ravenfalls

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Most people in those areas have analog only scanners.
Prob why had no updates, they gave up on NCSO radio instead of posting figure it out.

Agencies can buy almost new Trbo radio for few hundred. Compared to cost of P25.

Safe bet to say, Navajo will not join Wins. They can still bridge to analog, to DMR to P25.
Interagency not a big issue.

Even though the NM P25 is in place cover I40 into AZ where Greens Pk will drops off for inter system roaming. Wins is setup with San Diego & Riverside County Systems. New Mexico should be setup very soon to roam into AZ. California is still doing their buildout.
 

p19997

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I looked at the FCC License and it says its for a conventional system. That leaves two possibilities: Conventional where each site is essentially an independent system or IP Site Connect where it is one conventional system with sites interconnected via the Internet to extend system coverage.
 
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DanRollman

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I looked at the FCC License and it says its for a conventional system.
I know. But there are at least two I know of that are licensed as conventional but running as Con+ trunked, and one i know of that is licensed as trunked that is running a conventional, so I don't put too much stock in that. It's probably right, but listening is the only way to know.
 

p19997

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Hi All.

I am now living in Show Low and have started to profile the airwaves. NCSO (sheriffs) are analog and the only channels licensed to the county that have digital content appear to be for MDT's. Some of the schools are on DMR but I think they are encrypted. I haven't spent much time on them.

There is a ton of forestry to listen to here: Apache NF, Sitgreaves NF, Fort Apache forestry, and State Lands. Lots of action during the recent fires and there is more left to this year's fire season (unfortunately).

Will submit database update requests when I have enough.
 

DanRollman

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Hi All.

I am now living in Show Low and have started to profile the airwaves. NCSO (sheriffs) are analog and the only channels licensed to the county that have digital content appear to be for MDT's.
Thanks! Do you hear anything (even analog operations) on the frequencies listed at FCC Callsign WQQU737 (NAVAJO, COUNTY OF) I certainly trust live, local reports by experienced listeners over FCC license information, but your report is interesting considering lots of online official documents from the county (not least their budget!) refer to NCSO having purchased, built out and switched to their new MotoTRBO radio system, and a deputy told me they (of course) all received new radios as part of this. See, for example, the bottom of page 131 at https://www.navajocountyaz.gov/Port...uments/Budget/2014-2015/FY14-15_BudgeBook.pdf

But, I'm not there, and I haven't heard it with my own ears, so I'll trust yours over the counties budget documents. Maybe they installed it but went back to analog for some reason.
 

apco25

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TRBO is a poor choice due to marketing decisions with Motorola for public safety. While it's a great technology, marketing decisions prevent the protocol being included in high tier products such as full spectrum radios like the APX8000/8500. As such building a trbo / DMR system for public safety ends up costing more as the users will need to purchase additional radios for interoperability especially here in AZ where large P25 Phase 1 and now Phase 2 systems are being built out.
 

p19997

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Do you hear anything (even analog operations) on the frequencies listed at FCC Callsign WQQU737 (NAVAJO, COUNTY OF)
Hi Dan.

I see digital transmissions on 154.980 and another one of these. Using Analyze, LCN Finder on these frequencies does not find any LCN's. Moreover, the "DMR" indicator never comes on. I have tried mixing frequencies from other licenses, etc. but the scanner never sees LCNs or DMR. Because only two frequencies seem to carry digital traffic, I have speculated that they are MDT's. The other frequencies are silent.
 

DanRollman

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Hi Dan.

I see digital transmissions on 154.980 and another one of these. Using Analyze, LCN Finder on these frequencies does not find any LCN's. Moreover, the "DMR" indicator never comes on. I have tried mixing frequencies from other licenses, etc. but the scanner never sees LCNs or DMR. Because only two frequencies seem to carry digital traffic, I have speculated that they are MDT's. The other frequencies are silent.
Got it. What scanner are you using? If you have a Uniden, fair to assume the DMR key is installed? I dunno if it even detects that a digital transmission is DMR if you don't have the DMR feature installed.

Definitely shouldn't have LCNs anyway. I think this would be a conventional MotoTRBO DMR system (with IP site connect), not trunking. LCN finder wouldn't find anything even if it were in fact MotoTRBO (conventional).
 

p19997

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What scanner are you using?
I have a DMR enabled SDS 200 and SDS 100. I also tried this as a conventional system. No audio ever heard. What I don't know is how the SDS deals with encrypted communications. On the P25 side, you get the ENC designation but on DMR, I don't know what the radio does. I would think it also displays ENC, but I don't have experience with an encrypted DMR system.

P.S. - I hear the sheriffs on analog.
 

Ravenfalls

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TRBO is a poor choice due to marketing decisions with Motorola for public safety. While it's a great technology, marketing decisions prevent the protocol being included in high tier products such as full spectrum radios like the APX8000/8500. As such building a trbo / DMR system for public safety ends up costing more as the users will need to purchase additional radios for interoperability especially here in AZ where large P25 Phase 1 and now Phase 2 systems are being built out.
Buy the Kenwood portables which work on 3 modes (Analog, DMR & P25) get all that in one radio.

Still bridge DMR to analog or P25. No loss there.
DMR works well enough for public safety with roaming = they should be happy.
DMR radios cost a ton less than Motorola APX or new touch screen radio. Buy DMR repeaters / radios used to have extra parts.
 

rpgaun

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I'm not sure what Whiteriver PD (aka WMAT PD). When I was there, there were thee analog "channels" made up of two paired VHF frequencies and different PLs. There was a repeater in Whiteriver, one outside of Cibacue and a car to car on the repeater output frequency.
 
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Incidentally, Greenlee County has been on a MotoTRBO radio system even longer than Navajo County, but the database is still outdated for them too (FCC Callsign WQFR547 (GREENLEE COUNTY)). Pretty sure Greenlee is using a 5 site conventional IP site connect multicast system given only two frequencies (4 talkpaths) per site.

This is interesting to me in part because Georgia (where I live primarily, although I grew up in AZ and still visit often) probably has more rural county sheriff's departments running multi-site MotoTRBO conventional and trunked systems than any other state, and it is interesting to see it catching on in rural Arizona too. There's a lot to like about it, for an agency that can't afford P25 anyway.
Greenlee County's system is confusing. It uses some Harris P25 equipment but is licensed for both P25 and DMR, and simulcasts onto VHF analog. Unsure what the P25/DMR split is about. See WQIS771 in the ULS. Duncan Valley FD has been issued Harris equipment to use on the county system; its analog UHF repeater in Duncan is still active (radios used were Baofeng 888s and a few Kenwood TK-360Gs) but the Guthrie site has been offline for some time after a lightning strike.
 

Ravenfalls

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Usually P25 is for public safety & DMR public works. That's done as way have backup system. As well keep public works off the public safety system to avoid programming leaks.

Hopi & Navajo tribes have or had plans make 2 systems each.
 

apco25

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Programming leaks is not why public works types end up with DMR. Programming is easily protected via ASK, AAC and other means. Typical REAL reasons are

Cost - DMR is cheaper than p25 costs. This is a marketing decisions by radio manufacturers.
Some large public safety systems choose to NOT include public works users, so they have to get their own system.
Some radio vendors can't offer big systems (especially Motorola switching to inside sales) hence they don't have anything to offer so they push DMR products from Motorola. This is actually quite common and why many users end up on DMR that probably shouldn't.

Other than cost there's literally no difference in the digital platforms between DMR and P25 especially comparing Phase 2 TDMA P25 to DMR.
 

Ravenfalls

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I'm very familiar with both. Use duplex Hotspots at home because this area has no radio coverage. Gives me about 1,000 feet of radio coverage from house or vehicles.
It's user choice, able to use DMR or P25 through it.
That allows me to link into to any country or go deeper into their geographic area.
 

Ravenfalls

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Greenlee County has gone to VHF P25 Vote Scan system via Harris P25 products for some time now. WQIS771 is their P25 license.
This is 1 advantage to a Harris System.

Harris BeOn PTT APP

BeOn allows users to maintain a full set of advanced LMR features on an ordinary smartphone, and will work anywhere in the world where Wi-Fi® or cellular data service is available—regardless of the carrier.

This advanced Push-To-Talk application is supported on iOS™, Android™ and Windows®, and is integrated into the L3Harris XL-185P and XL-200P LTE Land Mobile Radios. This extends the range of the XL portables’ coverage and allows users to leverage broadband to improve situational awareness.
 
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