Naval comms on the milair band (225 - 400 MHz)

[marscan1]

More than 30 years ago when I was in the navy,most of the communications between ships were on the UHF band 225-400 MHz, now usually called the milair band as it is still very much used by military aircraft. I assume that the transmissions were AM just like the aircraft that they I guess communicated with too. I was wondering if this is still going on... I mean for intership use? No doubt naval ships still communicate with associated aircraft on this band,but I am talking about actual marine use... and if there are any lists of frequencies...

 

[ka3jjz]

I don't think I've seen any such intership freqs reported. If they're just using handhelds or equivalent low power units for such work, it would probably be well nigh impossible to hear unless they were very close to you. It would be interesting to find these frequencies, though. Would they use a higher power radio for intership when it might be overheard by someone? Hmmm...

Now from a HF standpoint, I have heard such comms - when there are exercises sometimes ships will use HF when coordinating across a large area. You gotta be johnny-on-the-spot for this, though. Keeping a sharp eye on lists like the UDXF on Yahoo will often alert you to when such activity is happening. There seems to be some specific ranges where these kinds of comms happen, it's not possible to predict them. Callsigns are frequently 2 part or 3 part in nature, such as 'xray 1 zulu' or 'bravo charlie'. You start hearing things like this, it's quite likely you have some sort of exercise in progress. 73s Mike

 

[ecps92]

380 Band

There have been reports of 380 Mhz Trunked Systems on various vessels
along with Conventional use of 380 Mhz [Not just the ISR Radios] for Shore
Patrols and Protection of the Vessell in port.

More than 30 years ago when I was in the navy,most of the communications between ships were on the UHF band 225-400 MHz, now usually called the milair band as it is still very much used by military aircraft. I assume that the transmissions were AM just like the aircraft that they I guess communicated with too. I was wondering if this is still going on... I mean for intership use? No doubt naval ships still communicate with associated aircraft on this band,but I am talking about actual marine use... and if there are any lists of frequencies...

 

[ka3jjz]

I completely forgot about that, Bill - thanks. I also seem to recall some mention- maybe in a MT article - that some ship comms are encrypted and sent up via satellites. Not surprising in a war zone 73s Mike

 

[marscan1]

Thanks for the replies guys... I agree that even if they still use 225-400 intership it would be low power and hard to catch unless in port. I know they use satellite a lot, and maybe it is used for close in comms as well as more distant.... I am pretty much out of touch but I wouldnt doubt they still use flags and morse lamps as well.... they are still useful for avoiding enemy intercepts.. My comments were about the Canadian navy but they are very much integrated comm-wise with the USN...

Bill, VA1WW
www.marscan.com

 

[SkipSanders]

There has always been plenty of Naval use of the 'MilAir' band for ships. Still is, too. Some of it is for interaction with aircraft, but the rest is what, back in WW II, was called 'TBS', Talk Between Ships.

For instance, ships in port normally don't stand a full comms watch. They do, however, monitor one channel, usually in MilAir (Yes, they're AM), which is the 'Alert Channel' for that area, operated by the local Naval Communications Station. This is the channel where they notify ships they have 'mail', and where they give terrorist threat warnings, nuclear attack warnings, etc.

There are 'Atlantic Common' channels, etc, where ships monitor for intership traffic.

It is true that most 'Navy' channels are used for interaction with aircraft, though, as far as I can recall from the times I was actively listening.

 

[ecps92]

Canadian Navy

What does the Canadian Navy use?
They were in Boston last year, and the Radios looked to be VHF High Band, but I could never find them.
ie: 138-150 or 163-174 Mhz ranges

Thanks for the replies guys... I agree that even if they still use 225-400 intership it would be low power and hard to catch unless in port. I know they use satellite a lot, and maybe it is used for close in comms as well as more distant.... I am pretty much out of touch but I wouldnt doubt they still use flags and morse lamps as well.... they are still useful for avoiding enemy intercepts.. My comments were about the Canadian navy but they are very much integrated comm-wise with the USN...

Bill, VA1WW
www.marscan.com

 

[ecps92]

Canadian Navy

What does the Canadian Navy use?
They were in Boston last year, and the Radios looked to be VHF High Band, but I could never find them.
ie: 138-150 or 163-174 Mhz ranges

Sorry about the DUP message guys, but the board returned an Error and said click "retry"

Thanks for the replies guys... I agree that even if they still use 225-400 intership it would be low power and hard to catch unless in port. I know they use satellite a lot, and maybe it is used for close in comms as well as more distant.... I am pretty much out of touch but I wouldnt doubt they still use flags and morse lamps as well.... they are still useful for avoiding enemy intercepts.. My comments were about the Canadian navy but they are very much integrated comm-wise with the USN...

Bill, VA1WW
www.marscan.com

 

[marscan1]

Regarding what the Canadian navy uses on VHF.... to my knowledge they do not use VHF at all other than the normal civil marine channels. The VHF high band in Canada is quite different from US usage. We do not have those segments reserved for government use from 138 to 144 and also up in the 162 MHz range and higher.... those are just normal commercial and public services segments up here. Therefore there is no military use of them that I know of anyway, other than incidental or maybe they have some capability for communications with US stations or with public service agencies. This brings up an interesting point that USN vessels in foreign waters are bringing along frequencies that are out of sync with the local usage in other countries, and I suppose that works both ways, and I guess happens also with civilian ships as well. Floating hotels (cruise ships) coming into various ports must run into this at least somewhat often.

Bill, VA1WW

 

[ecps92]

In Country vs Out of Country

Your right on the Mil. !

As for the Canadian Navy, they were observed using Motorola MCX looking radios and the Antenna looked VHF.

And the Cruise/Cargo [UHF Marine] is another world, with lots of GMRS Interference in the USA from not only Foreign Flagged Vessels but US Flagged.

Take a look at my link, for a pretty comprehensive list.

Regarding what the Canadian navy uses on VHF.... to my knowledge they do not use VHF at all other than the normal civil marine channels. The VHF high band in Canada is quite different from US usage. We do not have those segments reserved for government use from 138 to 144 and also up in the 162 MHz range and higher.... those are just normal commercial and public services segments up here. Therefore there is no military use of them that I know of anyway, other than incidental or maybe they have some capability for communications with US stations or with public service agencies. This brings up an interesting point that USN vessels in foreign waters are bringing along frequencies that are out of sync with the local usage in other countries, and I suppose that works both ways, and I guess happens also with civilian ships as well. Floating hotels (cruise ships) coming into various ports must run into this at least somewhat often.

Bill, VA1WW

 

[Ripper6Bravo]

Here on the West Coast of Canada the Navy out of Esquimalt uses many frequencies in the UHF milair band for alot of their comms. Our military do not make extensive use of VHF hi band frequencies although they can and have turned up anywhere, there is no designated "band" for Canadian Military servcies. I have found some RCN channels in the RCMP band allocations and VHF-Lo. We have a joint USN - RCN base located on Vancouver Island and the USN part all use normal military channels in the 139-140 Mhz area which is the same as RCMP in many parts. UHF usage was strictly for Range control operations but many USN ships have visited there and they all used the common frequencies that are in many US based publications, such as the old 36 Mhz channels, of course today they probably make the most use of the 380 Mhz and other trunk systems.

As for Canadain Navy shipboard operations and many exercises I have found almost all of them use common VHF marine band channels. There are a few common channels that are liscensed for offical government use and I always find Naval communications on them at different times. There are also certian Marine channels liscensed for liaison with aircraft and I have found those to be active with Military SAR traffic at different times too.

I have heard many helo-ship comms, as well as battle group missile attack exercises on UHF Milair as well as Port Control both on UHF and Marine Channels (156 Mhz).
It is interesting to note that on all of the Canadian ships that I've toured on they all have frequency lists for Pt. Mugu Plead Range in California.

Ripper6bravo

 

[ecps92]

Thanks...

Thanks....interesting.

wondering if the East Coast vs West Coast ships use different plans.

Almost like the CG using the old LANT vs [forgot what PAC used] in the 162-174 mhz ranges.

Here on the West Coast of Canada the Navy out of Esquimalt uses many frequencies in the UHF milair band for alot of their comms. Our military do not make extensive use of VHF hi band frequencies although they can and have turned up anywhere, there is no designated "band" for Canadian Military servcies. I have found some RCN channels in the RCMP band allocations and VHF-Lo. We have a joint USN - RCN base located on Vancouver Island and the USN part all use normal military channels in the 139-140 Mhz area which is the same as RCMP in many parts. UHF usage was strictly for Range control operations but many USN ships have visited there and they all used the common frequencies that are in many US based publications, such as the old 36 Mhz channels, of course today they probably make the most use of the 380 Mhz and other trunk systems.

As for Canadain Navy shipboard operations and many exercises I have found almost all of them use common VHF marine band channels. There are a few common channels that are liscensed for offical government use and I always find Naval communications on them at different times. There are also certian Marine channels liscensed for liaison with aircraft and I have found those to be active with Military SAR traffic at different times too.

I have heard many helo-ship comms, as well as battle group missile attack exercises on UHF Milair as well as Port Control both on UHF and Marine Channels (156 Mhz).
It is interesting to note that on all of the Canadian ships that I've toured on they all have frequency lists for Pt. Mugu Plead Range in California.

Ripper6bravo