NE/KS/MO/IA Repeater ch76 to ch23

[CryptoBoy]

Since there are a few folks on here from the corners of the 4-state region, I thought I'd see if anyone else has ever heard this signal.

This morning, while tuning across the RR band, I stumbled upon activity on ch23 (160.455). Oddly enough, I had another radio monitoring the BNSF St. Joe Sub west on ch76 (161.250) and noticed that the audio was the same on both. Further monitoring showed that what I was listening to was a repeater on ch23 (output) that is repeating the signals it receives from ch76 (input).

So away I go to the FCC database to go a geographic search. Keep in mind that what I am hearing is the BNSF St. Joe Sub traffic from Napier to Lincoln (which is on ch76). But FCC shows no such allocations to BNSF. So then I do a freq search for a 120 mile radius (figuring that is about the most I could expect to hear) and come across some UP allocations in Iowa. Indeed, it looks like there might be some UP repeaters in Iowa that fit the bill, but this being ex-CNW territory, I thought ch23 was a simplex channel (the old Road 2) and not a PBX or repeater.

So what I am wondering is if anyone else has ever heard this, or knows if UP has repeaters with 23out/76in anywhere in the area of the the NE/KS/IA/MO borders. I'm not picking up anything exceptional today, so I don't think we have weird band openings or anything. So that means the tower I am hearing is probably within 100 miles or so of SE NE / SW IA / NW MO / NE KS.

Anyone else?

 

[seligman]

Send me a PM with your location, how far this repeater hears, and any guesses where you think it's located. I might be able to provide you better info on a PM, otherwise I could get in trouble posting here.

 

[jim202]

There is always a possibility that a patch was made on a console someplace that is connecting
2 or more base stations together. Public safety does this all the time. My guess is that this
might have been during the time when dispatch centers might be consolidated for manpower.
Like on the weekend or at night.

When these console patches are made, what ever conversations are on one base station, they
come out on the other base station that is patched together, They do not have to be repeaters,
but just a simplex base station on each end.

Normally when a patch is made, you can hear a slight delay in the audio. If you are listening
to both base stations at the same time, the audio between the 2 receivers sort of has a slight
echo or ghost sound to it.

Jim

Since there are a few folks on here from the corners of the 4-state region, I thought I'd see if anyone else has ever heard this signal.

This morning, while tuning across the RR band, I stumbled upon activity on ch23 (160.455). Oddly enough, I had another radio monitoring the BNSF St. Joe Sub west on ch76 (161.250) and noticed that the audio was the same on both. Further monitoring showed that what I was listening to was a repeater on ch23 (output) that is repeating the signals it receives from ch76 (input).

So away I go to the FCC database to go a geographic search. Keep in mind that what I am hearing is the BNSF St. Joe Sub traffic from Napier to Lincoln (which is on ch76). But FCC shows no such allocations to BNSF. So then I do a freq search for a 120 mile radius (figuring that is about the most I could expect to hear) and come across some UP allocations in Iowa. Indeed, it looks like there might be some UP repeaters in Iowa that fit the bill, but this being ex-CNW territory, I thought ch23 was a simplex channel (the old Road 2) and not a PBX or repeater.

So what I am wondering is if anyone else has ever heard this, or knows if UP has repeaters with 23out/76in anywhere in the area of the the NE/KS/IA/MO borders. I'm not picking up anything exceptional today, so I don't think we have weird band openings or anything. So that means the tower I am hearing is probably within 100 miles or so of SE NE / SW IA / NW MO / NE KS.

Anyone else?

 

[burner50]

76-23 is the Old PBX system on the old DBL main.


UP radios dont come programmed for a repeater on 76-23



Also, there are many times that dispatchers use multiple towers.

 

[seligman]

76-23 is the Old PBX system on the old DBL main.

The problem is that these AAR 76-23 repeaters require(d) a specific access code - that's if you believe the internal data available.

 

[IrvingtonVFD43]

I hear 76/23 from time to time where I am at. My timetable shows channel 23 is repeater input for BNSF mobile radio (PBX), from Kansas City to Lincoln (Carling Tower). For the most part signal maintainers and track inspectors use the mobile radio. I am not sure why mobile radio is operating full-time since you have to dial an access code to open the tower.

The problem is that these AAR 76-23 repeaters require(d) a specific access code - that's if you believe the internal data available

No data streams to or from the tower, the laptops in BNSF vehicles rely on cellular phone technology to send and receive data.

On the flip side:

BNSF Sioux City Sub uses 75/27 for trains arriving and departing Sioux City. This is not on a repeater, but some sort of semi-duplex operation. I would assume at one time this was a former Burlington Northern PBX frequency allocation.

 

[Allan_Love_Jr]

I agree. Back during the C&NW days. Channel 2 AAR 2323 160.455Mhz was used as the MofW Channel for the CNW Maintenance crews to communicate. But now there is alot of BNSF talk on the channel. This has been going on for the past 2 to 3 years now. Alot of the time. Most of the time the signals are broken. Incomplete. I would not go to say that this channel is a BNSF channel because the UP still holds the usage rights to this channel. This is in fact a "UP MofW" Channel. Not BNSF.

 

[seligman]

I hear 76/23 from time to time where I am at. My timetable shows channel 23 is repeater input for BNSF mobile radio (PBX), from Kansas City to Lincoln (Carling Tower). For the most part signal maintainers and track inspectors use the mobile radio. I am not sure why mobile radio is operating full-time since you have to dial an access code to open the tower.

I have extensive PBX lists and none of the frequency pairs use AAR 23. Where are you seeing this?

No data streams to or from the tower, the laptops in BNSF vehicles rely on cellular phone technology to send and receive data.

Re-read what I said. I wasn't saying data is sent. I was talking about internal company reference data (printouts, databases, etc).

 

[Allan_Love_Jr]

I have extensive PBX lists and none of the frequency pairs use AAR 23. Where are you seeing this?

Are you saying that the BNSF does not use this Channel?

 

[seligman]

Are you saying that the BNSF does not use this Channel?

I was talking about PBX Channels only. None of the BNSF PBX systems (input or output freq) use AAR 23.

 

[timkilbride]

As Allan said, this has been going on for a couple years now. Here is what I got from BNSF back on 2/2/07

According to one of BNSF’s consulting telecomm engineers, our St. Joseph Subdivision is divided whereby the northern portion of the subdivision between West Napier to Carling is operating on AAR channel 76, 161.250 MHz and the southern portion between West Napier and Kansas City is operating on AAR channel 70, 161.160 MHz. On occasion we do find train crews using a channel they are unauthorized to use while they perform switching operations. When and if this happens, we notify the appropriate operations personnel to alert the train crew to discontinue use of the unauthorized channel.



As for the question concerning skip and/or ducting, which is caused from atmospheric conditions, and does cause RF signals to travel hundreds of miles at times. The most pronounced times of the year for this to occur is in the summer months, and in the Midwest part of the United States.

 

[CryptoBoy]

Thanks for all the replies. A little more info here. I travel a lot, so I'm not frequently in any given fixed position. Nonetheless, when I was listening to this, I was in extreme northwestern MO using a mobile, so I wouldn't expect to hear base stations further than 50 miles or so, but maybe there was some enhanced propagation going on due to all the fog.

Now I listen to the BNSF St. Joe Line all the time, which is why I immediately was clued in on what I was hearing. I stumbled on this because I was momentarily on the UP Falls City Sub channel (20), and was tuning back to the BNSF channel (76), when I came across BNSF DS traffic on 23 (and I had a second radio already on 76 that was playing the same audio).

It was definitely a repeater and there were no access tones needed. Mostly I was hearing the BNSF St. Joe Line DS as he was talking on the Firth, Tecumseh and Table Rock radios. Only occasionally would I hear the train he was talking to. I'm saying I was hearing all of this on Ch23. Over on 76 (the real channel BNSF was transmitting on), I could hear the Tecumseh radio rather weakly, but not Table Rock or Firth (though on rare conditions, I can hear these).

My first thought was that this was a relay, so that's why I immediately headed over the FCC site and starting searching. No dice. I don't think BNSF uses any VHF radios to relay from one tower to the next; at least I've never run across it. Probably either fiber optic or digital microwave, most likely.

Anyway, it was fun to listen to on Saturday, because it effectively gave me a lot more range that I would have normally had (by hearing the DS across pretty much the entire western end of the St. Joe Sub). On Sunday, the signal was much weaker, so I'm still guessing that the best explanation for this is that it is a UP PBX repeater over in Iowa somewhere that is just picking up the BNSF St. Joe Sub on its input.

 

[Allan_Love_Jr]

Thanks for all the replies. A little more info here. I travel a lot, so I'm not frequently in any given fixed position. Nonetheless, when I was listening to this, I was in extreme northwestern MO using a mobile, so I wouldn't expect to hear base stations further than 50 miles or so, but maybe there was some enhanced propagation going on due to all the fog.

Now I listen to the BNSF St. Joe Line all the time, which is why I immediately was clued in on what I was hearing. I stumbled on this because I was momentarily on the UP Falls City Sub channel (20), and was tuning back to the BNSF channel (76), when I came across BNSF DS traffic on 23 (and I had a second radio already on 76 that was playing the same audio).

It was definitely a repeater and there were no access tones needed. Mostly I was hearing the BNSF St. Joe Line DS as he was talking on the Firth, Tecumseh and Table Rock radios. Only occasionally would I hear the train he was talking to. I'm saying I was hearing all of this on Ch23. Over on 76 (the real channel BNSF was transmitting on), I could hear the Tecumseh radio rather weakly, but not Table Rock or Firth (though on rare conditions, I can hear these).

My first thought was that this was a relay, so that's why I immediately headed over the FCC site and starting searching. No dice. I don't think BNSF uses any VHF radios to relay from one tower to the next; at least I've never run across it. Probably either fiber optic or digital microwave, most likely.

Anyway, it was fun to listen to on Saturday, because it effectively gave me a lot more range that I would have normally had (by hearing the DS across pretty much the entire western end of the St. Joe Sub). On Sunday, the signal was much weaker, so I'm still guessing that the best explanation for this is that it is a UP PBX repeater over in Iowa somewhere that is just picking up the BNSF St. Joe Sub on its input.

That's weard. I have heard that same Dispatcher up in Herman and Fremont many times.

Not only does the DX Propagation happen in the Summer months. But this year in the Winter. The DX Propagation has been AWESOME! VHF Propagation Map