Pro-96: Need help monitoring a P25 Phase 1 system

unixdude

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
76
Hi, all. I am trying to monitor the Cary/Wake NC P25 system and the NC VIPER system. My PRO-96 is configured from years ago, and it worked fine back then, but now when I turn it on, I never hear anything. I have confirmed that my scanner is programmed with all of the red frequencies (the control frequencies), and I do see my scanner receiving something, but it never outputs any audio anymore -- that is, it never outputs audio from any local trunked systems.

I'm guessing that this means a rebanding happened that I'm not aware of, but I have my WIN-96 configuration set for the 700MHz rebanding. Was there more rebanding configuration to implement?

I know the scanner works, because it can receive all of the local amateur radio repeaters (2m/440) without issue.

Any ideas what I should look at next?

Thanks, all.

Edit: I should add that I am listening with all banks open, so I should be hearing something. I do sometimes see the scanner stop on a talkgroup, but it never opens squelch and it immediately removes the TGID from the display.
 
Last edited:

Ronaldski

MI DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,976
Location
Bay City MI
Further info for that area, Wake County P25 switch

Just thinking, I saw they switched to p25 digital, did you also update your programming to the current P25? If your using the programming from a couple years ago, the Type II trunking one that they used to use, that programming wouldn't work now. Will have to update to what they use now. I see Police is encrypted though. This is their old system an if your radio has it programmed for this, you'll need delete what you have and reprogram to the current P25 system. Wake County Trunking System, Various, North Carolina

Just something to look at, if you have it programmed using the current P25 system, while its getting a signal press the MAN button if I recall correctly. It should stop on the control frequency and would show a percentage signal and annoying sound. If its rather sporadic even up to 100%, but drops to zero or so, I've seen with people's pro 96's here, likely that VR4 needs to be adjusted. I've seen ~10-12 here I've had to open up and with a very small screw driver like for eyeglasses screws. I've found maybe an adjustment of ~10% counter clockwise of the very small potentiometer strength does fix it.
 
Last edited:

unixdude

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
76
Would that be "superseded"?

Anyway, I am receiving things on the control channel frequencies, getting 94-98% of data, and I see TGIDs, and those TGIDs match TGIDs on the Cary P25 system, it just never breaks the squelch.

Just thinking, I saw they switched to p25 digital, did you also update your programming to the current P25? If your using the programming from a couple years ago, the Type II trunking one that they used to use, that programming wouldn't work now. Will have to update to what they use now. I see Police is encrypted though. This is their old system an if your radio has it programmed for this, you'll need delete what you have and reprogram to the current P25 system. Wake County Trunking System, Various, North Carolina
The TGIDs I'm seeing today are not encrypted. Digital, yes, but not encrypted.

Anyway, I get that I need to reprogram all my TGIDs, and that's fine, but with the bank open (receives any TGID), all TGIDs should open the squelch. And obviously it won't give me the alpha tag for any TGIDs that aren't programmed.

The weird thing is that this is for every single bank on my scanner -- NC VIPER, Cary/Wake P25, and all the others. I can leave my scanner on and not hear anything for the entire time it is on.

As mentioned, I hear the control channel, and I see the scanner stopping for a TGID, but it never gets the audio from the talkgroup. The control channel frequencies are giving me the SYSID and WACN that I expect, so I know I'm hearing the control channel for the system that I expect.

Thanks for the info on the adjustments -- I should be able to find someone with a signal generator to do it all completely right, or maybe I'll start with adjusting that one 10% counter-clockwise.
 

RaleighGuy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
13,129
Location
Raleigh, NC
If you are trying to monitor the Wake Co portion of the Cary/Wake system, only put in site two, if you want to hear Cary only add site one. If you want to hear both enter the system twice, once for each site, and place the appropriate TGs in the correct system. Wake is only using the core and this is not a true shared system.
 

wtp

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
5,914
Location
Port Charlotte FL
thanks Ronald.
it is time to take the radio for a ride to see if you can get something.
simulcast can have bad spots, try moving the radio around, even in the house, and do not worry about the percent of signal.
 
Last edited:

wtp

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
5,914
Location
Port Charlotte FL
my radio does much better when shoved into the corner of the aluminium framed window with a 1.5 inch race antenna on it.
1663027968720.png
 
Last edited:

unixdude

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
76
If you are trying to monitor the Wake Co portion of the Cary/Wake system, only put in site two, if you want to hear Cary only add site one. If you want to hear both enter the system twice, once for each site, and place the appropriate TGs in the correct system. Wake is only using the core and this is not a true shared system.
Thanks, I'll do that. What I don't get is why I never hear anything from any Motorola trunked system. With the bank open, every active talkgroup should open the squelch, and I should hear something, but I never hear anything. I see the radio detecting talkgroups (the TGID shows up onscreen), but it never opens the squelch even though I have the banks open.

Attached is the rebanding table I am using; is anything wrong with this?

Also, see attached screenshot -- note that it is receiving TGID 46916, which is "WSO DET 1" -- but note that the lightning bolt is not shown on the screen, like it is when audio is received. Note also the "+" denoting the open bank.

Also, I have had my scanner on this morning for a while, and I'm starting to wonder if I'm too far from some towers, since I did hear one TGID. I think it was TGID 46998, but based on what I heard, I'm not sure "GoWake Wake Coordinated Transport 1" makes sense for that one.

Am I just too far from the towers? I'm in southern Wake County.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2022-09-13 at 08.19.02.png
    Screen Shot 2022-09-13 at 08.19.02.png
    268.3 KB · Views: 28
  • IMG_7793.jpeg
    IMG_7793.jpeg
    153.4 KB · Views: 20

gmclam

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,335
Location
Fair Oaks, CA
The screen shots helped a lot, but there's one before the one on the left that will show a selection that includes MOT, LTR, EDACS, ..... That one should be selected to P25 (although it may have a slightly different name). Your screen shot on the right confirms you are presently selected to MOT and that is no longer correct for that system.
 

KE4ZNR

Radio Geek
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
7,254
Location
Raleigh, NC
Thanks, I'll do that. What I don't get is why I never hear anything from any Motorola trunked system. With the bank open, every active talkgroup should open the squelch, and I should hear something, but I never hear anything. I see the radio detecting talkgroups (the TGID shows up onscreen), but it never opens the squelch even though I have the banks open.

Attached is the rebanding table I am using; is anything wrong with this?

Also, see attached screenshot -- note that it is receiving TGID 46916, which is "WSO DET 1" -- but note that the lightning bolt is not shown on the screen, like it is when audio is received. Note also the "+" denoting the open bank.

Also, I have had my scanner on this morning for a while, and I'm starting to wonder if I'm too far from some towers, since I did hear one TGID. I think it was TGID 46998, but based on what I heard, I'm not sure "GoWake Wake Coordinated Transport 1" makes sense for that one.

Am I just too far from the towers? I'm in southern Wake County.

Long time since we have caught up.
Don't need rebanding tables as the scanner will get the Wake P25 bandplan from the Control Channel.
Like someone else has said above your problem is most likely simulcast distortion.
The Pro96 was good in its day (still have mine somewhere around the house) but it was made long before simulcast distortion became an issue and it does not handle P25 systems like Wake/Cary very well.
Another issue you will find is that the VIPER sites in and around Wake County are all now 700Mhz which the Pro96 can't follow.
Possibly time to upgrade the scanner to something newer that can handle simulcast distortion better.
 

unixdude

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
76
Long time since we have caught up.
Don't need rebanding tables as the scanner will get the Wake P25 bandplan from the Control Channel.
Like someone else has said above your problem is most likely simulcast distortion.
The Pro96 was good in its day (still have mine somewhere around the house) but it was made long before simulcast distortion became an issue and it does not handle P25 systems like Wake/Cary very well.
Another issue you will find is that the VIPER sites in and around Wake County are all now 700Mhz which the Pro96 can't follow.
Possibly time to upgrade the scanner to something newer that can handle simulcast distortion better.
Hey, thanks, I was wondering if you were still around these parts. I thought you left. I re-upped my ham license and will PM or email you my callsign. Anyway, I think you're probably right -- probably time to just sell this thing online, or use it only for ham radio monitoring. But, my HT, a Yaesu VX-6R, does a much better job than the PRO-96 for scanning the ham bands, so yeah, it's probably time to let the PRO-96 go.

Any chance you have recommendations for a better scanner to listen around this area? I really only care about those 3 things -- Cary/Wake P25, NC VIPER, and ham radio (2m/440 mostly).
 

KE4ZNR

Radio Geek
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
7,254
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hey, thanks, I was wondering if you were still around these parts. I thought you left. I re-upped my ham license and will PM or email you my callsign. Anyway, I think you're probably right -- probably time to just sell this thing online, or use it only for ham radio monitoring. But, my HT, a Yaesu VX-6R, does a much better job than the PRO-96 for scanning the ham bands, so yeah, it's probably time to let the PRO-96 go.

Any chance you have recommendations for a better scanner to listen around this area? I really only care about those 3 things -- Cary/Wake P25, NC VIPER, and ham radio (2m/440 mostly).

Still here in the Triangle area. Most folks have been happy with Uniden SDS100 (Portable) or SDS 200 (Mobile). Also Unication pagers handle simulcast distortion well. And if you don't mind being tethered to a computer there are SDR options.
 

unixdude

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
76
Still here in the Triangle area. Most folks have been happy with Uniden SDS100 (Portable) or SDS 200 (Mobile). Also Unication pagers handle simulcast distortion well. And if you don't mind being tethered to a computer there are SDR options.
Wow, that's a nice-looking scanner, but too rich for my blood. No WAF there. I guess for now I'll just use the VX-6R and won't scan.

Is there anything other than Air & ham bands that I can still scan in Wake County, with a PRO-96?
 

tvengr

Well Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
9,178
Location
Baltimore County, MD
I'm guessing that this means a rebanding happened that I'm not aware of, but I have my WIN-96 configuration set for the 700MHz rebanding. Was there more rebanding configuration to implement?
All of the frequencies for the Cary and Wake County sites are 800 MHz. You don't need to worry about rebanding or multi-tables with the P25 systems. I use ARC96 for programming. Just set the Mot 3600 and Mot 9600 Systems Bandplans to Normal or Standard, whatever they are called in Win96. I programmed a PRO-96 for a Harford County MD firefighter. It would not receive the Baltimore County MD P25 system until I adjusted VR4 inside the scanner. It is labelled on the circuit board. Don't worry about the VR4 adjustment until you see if the scanner works without it. I recently programmed another PRO-96 for Baltimore County and the adjustment was not needed. Looking at the screen shot of the Extended Trunking Tables Standard Plans, set 3600 CC and 9600 CC to 800 MHz. I'm just guessing. You shouldn't need an extended band plan with P25. If anyone is familiar with Win96, please feel free to jump in.
 
Last edited:

KE4ZNR

Radio Geek
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
7,254
Location
Raleigh, NC
Wow, that's a nice-looking scanner, but too rich for my blood. No WAF there. I guess for now I'll just use the VX-6R and won't scan.

Is there anything other than Air & ham bands that I can still scan in Wake County, with a PRO-96?

Railroads are stay pretty busy in Central NC:
Also retail (Target as an example). Still a lot to hear around the Central NC area.
 

KE4ZNR

Radio Geek
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
7,254
Location
Raleigh, NC
All of the frequencies for the Cary and Wake County sites are 800 MHz. You don't need to worry about rebanding or multi-tables with the P25 systems. I use ARC96 for programming. Just set the Mot 3600 and Mot 9600 Systems Bandplans to Normal or Standard, whatever they are called in Win96. I programmed a PRO-96 for a Harford County MD firefighter. It would not receive the Baltimore County MD P25 system until I adjusted VR4 inside the scanner. It is labelled on the circuit board. Don't worry about the VR4 adjustment until you see if the scanner works without it. I recently programmed another PRO-96 for Baltimore County and the adjustment was not needed. Looking at the screen shot of the Extended Trunking Tables Standard Plans, set 3600 CC and 9600 CC to 800 MHz. I'm just guessing. You shouldn't need an extended band plan with P25. If anyone is familiar with Win96, please feel free to jump in.

All of the above is accurate: Wake is indeed a 9600 system. Just be careful opening up the radio because it is a lot easier to pull the radio apart than to put it back together if you are not careful!
 
Top