Need help "translating" sensitivity specifications

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jonwienke

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Given that 3dB is very close to a factor of 2, -6dB would be half of a half, or 1/4 of a microvolt. You should be able to figure it out from there.
 

prcguy

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Voltage in dB is calculated on a 20 log scale and power is on a 10 log scale so you can't add and subtract voltage in dB the same as power. A 6dB change in voltage is twice or half.

With a microvolt being about -107dBm then -6dB would be -113dBm (all calculated within the power power domain) or .501uv. That would be slightly less sensitive than the other radio at .4uv.



Given that 3dB is very close to a factor of 2, -6dB would be half of a half, or 1/4 of a microvolt. You should be able to figure it out from there.
 

KB2GOM

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Voltage in dB is calculated on a 20 log scale and power is on a 10 log scale so you can't add and subtract voltage in dB the same as power. A 6dB change in voltage is twice or half.

With a microvolt being about -107dBm then -6dB would be -113dBm (all calculated within the power power domain) or .501uv. That would be slightly less sensitive than the other radio at .4uv.

So how much of a difference in sensitivity do you need to see (hear) an actual difference in practical terms?

Uniden 125AT claims .4 microV sensitivity in Civilian air band.

Icom R30 claims "less than" 1.4 mV sensitivity in Civilian air band.

With the same antenna, same signal, same distance from transmitter, would there be a noticeable difference?
 

prcguy

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This is hard to answer because every radio is a little different in they way the limiting circuit works. I can hear the difference between .25uv and .3uv on a test bench between two identical radios or when aligning a single radio. Two other radios might sound closer or a little further apart in noise levels receiving the same weak signal. The limiter comes into effect with signals maybe 10 to 15dB above the sensitivity rating where it quiets the receiver quickly in an non linear fashion.

So how much of a difference in sensitivity do you need to see (hear) an actual difference in practical terms?

Uniden 125AT claims .4 microV sensitivity in Civilian air band.

Icom R30 claims "less than" 1.4 mV sensitivity in Civilian air band.

With the same antenna, same signal, same distance from transmitter, would there be a noticeable difference?
 

Ubbe

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So how much of a difference in sensitivity do you need to see (hear) an actual difference in practical terms?
You have to remember that figures are measured at a test bench with absolutely no other signals that can interfere.

I often test the true sensitivity using a an external antenna and inserting a signal to check how the sensitivity in the receiver are when it is exposed to the live RF in the air. Receivers like Icom R2 and R10 are super sensitive at the test bench but when using an external antenna they get 50 times worse in sensitivity, in the 10uV range. A scanner like Pro2006 have terrible test bench sensitivity but are unaffected by any external antenna. Test bench value for R2/R10 are something like 0,15uV and Pro2006 are 0,8uV. When connected to an antenna the R2/R10 have 10uV but the Pro2006 keeps its 0,8uV sensitivity, which then will receive much more than the Icoms. People swear by their Pro2006's that they are the most sensitive scanner they have, but that are only true when their scanners are exposed to the RF level in the air. If I use a FM broadcast filter with the Icoms they improve to about a 2uV to 3uV level but are still 5 times worse than the Pro2006. Icom makes other receivers that are much better, like the PCR1500/2500 that have something like a 0,5uV sensitivity are are totally unaffected by any antenna signal. It is the most sensitive receiver I have but lack any capability in scan speed and flexibility in programming and digital decode, so I take the discriminator signal and feed into DSDplus to decode what other scanners can't decode due to a too weak signal.

So do not stare yourself blind on the test bench figures that manufactures present. It is often a different story when used in real life enviroments. You'll have to live out in the countryside far away from any FM broadcast and TV transmitters and also cellular towers to be unaffected, but then you probably also do not have that much to listen to.

/Ubbe
 
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