Neighborhood Communications Options

[KD0UOI]

Hi all, new member here. Given the expertise in FRS/GMRS/etc and possibly other comm methods, I thought I would see if any of you had good solutions to what I think my neighborhood needs. I took a look at

I live in an over-55 neighborhood of 40 homes. The neighborhood is fairly small - about 250-300 yards in diameter. I am looking for an easy to use, low-cost (free, preferably) comm method that can work across the neighborhood in emergency situations, with the following requirements:

Required
- Closed membership to only the 60-70 residents in the neighborhood. Not eavsdroppable outside the list
- Doe not need to work at all outside the neighborhood boundaries
- Allows anyone to initiate contact with one other person, a group of people, or everyone in the membership list
- If a smartphone app, needs to support both IoS and Android devices
- Does not require exposing contact lists or other security risks outside the membership
- No Ham radio license needed. I have one, but no way older neighbors are going to get one
- Easy to set up/configure and use

Preferences
- text messaging preferred. However, would be nice to have voice as a backup/alternate comm mode. Voice only may be workable as long as "persistent" (see below)
- Would be nice to have message persistence like an inbox, so others wouldn't be required to be live to hear/see a new message
- Attach snapshot(s), video, audio recording to a message
- Request callback identifier if you can't reach anyone
- No internet connection required. WiFi/Bluetooth messaging may be ok, as a mesh network like IoS/Android supports. Looked at Firechat and Bridgefy, but neither meets the requirements
- An administrator could create the master membership list and groups - and distribute that to the other devices without everyone having to enter that on their own device

Thanks,
Tom (KD0UOI)

 

[MTS2000des]

About the only thing that meets the "off network" requirements, "license free" and "encryption" would be the Motorola DTR series. Not cheap but will also do text messaging. The DTRs use 900MHz ISM spread spectrum digital, completely safe from scanners, interference and would meet your coverage requirements The cost would be the biggest objection I am sure.

The other most logical option for the phone/tablet route is Zello. It's free and private talk groups can be created and managed. Of course by nature it requires a cellular and or WiFi connection to the public internet. OTOH, it runs on iOS, Android, Windows desktop client- and with some work, can be integrated to a traditional LMR with a gateway.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Probably some of those Motorola DTR digital radios. Though you are paying a premium for the privacy function. Why not new FRS radios. Find good ones that use lithium ion batteries. Otherwise what you describe sounds like an app.

 

[KD0UOI]

Can new FRS radios be configured to not allow others not on a membership list to listen in or transmit?

 

[Thunderknight]

Your needs and wants sound mainly like an app. The main thing it doesn't check off is the no internet access.
Given the size of your area, you could consider building a dedicated WiFi network with some high power outdoor WAPs and then host something locally.

 

[belvdr]

Unless you need voice, I suggest GroupMe. It allows text to be sent to the group as a whole and has the ability to mute notifications, if need be.

 

[n1das]

About the only thing that meets the "off network" requirements, "license free" and "encryption" would be the Motorola DTR series. Not cheap but will also do text messaging. The DTRs use 900MHz ISM spread spectrum digital, completely safe from scanners, interference and would meet your coverage requirements The cost would be the biggest objection I am sure.

The other most logical option for the phone/tablet route is Zello. It's free and private talk groups can be created and managed. Of course by nature it requires a cellular and or WiFi connection to the public internet. OTOH, it runs on iOS, Android, Windows desktop client- and with some work, can be integrated to a traditional LMR with a gateway.

What MTS2000des said.

Instead of the DTRs, check out the Motorola DLR series. Smaller and lower cost than the DTRs and compatible with the DTRs except the DLRs don't have a display so no texting with them. DLR = Digital Lightweight Radio, according to Motorola.

I have owned models in both series and currently own a small fleet of DTRs. They are my digital replacement for GMRS/FRS and MURS for local on-site simplex type use with family and friends. A co-worker once asked my why not just use FRS? My answer was that I have already been doing that since FRS was created in 1996 and longer than that as a GMRS licensee since 1992. I want an all-digital solution that is higher quality and more professional than FRS. Being able to make them reasonably secure from other DTR/DLR radios not part of my group and already completely safe from scanners comes as a bonus.

I still have GMRS/FRS and MURS as backups and for interoperability but they are no longer my default go-to modes for local on-site simplex type use with family and friends. I have been bitten by the digital radio bug as a ham and want a practical digital solution for my non-ham stuff. Aside from rare and occasional light use of FRS with my nephews once in a blue moon, I don't use analog at all anymore for my non-ham stuff.

Motorola DTR:

DTR On-Site Digital Two-Way Radios - Motorola Solutions

Learn more about the DTR series radio that provides wide-area coverage making it the perfect partner for small businesses.

www.motorolasolutions.com

Motorola DLR:

Unlicensed Business Radios - Motorola Solutions

Motorola’s on-site two-way business radios are designed to meet your business needs, helping your team coordinate quickly to address customer needs.

www.motorolasolutions.com

I am also a Zello user and second the recommendation for using Zello if looking for good smartphone PTT app.

 

[prcguy]

I compared an FRS radio to another brand of 1w 900MHz frequency hopping radio and neither would give reliable comms around my work perimeter which was a little over 100yds on each side and square. This was from inside an office at the perimeter trying to get to the other side of a building on the property. Outdoors a 1 watt 900 radio works fine and I've covered just about all the outside swap meet area of the Dayton Hamvention at the old site, which was huge.

 

[vagrant]

Regarding the DTR700, I have performed limited testing and it worked well considering its specifications. A friend was using one in his vehicle and I was in my home. No problem with 1/2 mile distance. At one mile it started to have problems and at 1.5 miles it was very intermittent/not working. Again, I was in my home and a friend in his moving vehicle.

Everyone's RF environment is different, so things may work the same, better, or worse.

 

[dcr_inc]

Zello..FREE and will do all you want plus

 

[ecps92]

if you have "Internet" connectivity from the PC or Phone

Zello..FREE and will do all you want plus

 

[Thunderknight]

if you have "Internet" connectivity from the PC or Phone

Well...there is a Zello on-premise solution. But not free....get out the checkbook.

Zello | Enterprise Server

The all-in-one business communications solution, with over 10 billion messages delivered each month and users in over 200 countries. Empower your workforce with instant, replayable voice.

zello.com

 

[ecps92]

But what neighborhood is going to have their own Intranet

Well...there is a Zello on-premise solution. But not free....get out the checkbook.

Zello | Enterprise Server

The all-in-one business communications solution, with over 10 billion messages delivered each month and users in over 200 countries. Empower your workforce with instant, replayable voice.

zello.com

 

[Thunderknight]

But what neighborhood is going to have their own Intranet

As I suggested in my first post above, since it's not a large area, put up some outdoor high power WAPs and have their own WiFi network if they are concerned about not being connected to/needing the internet for it to work.
It wouldn't surprise me if there is a much less expensive (open source??) software solution than Zello. This seems like a great use of a RPI

 

[belvdr]

WAPs and a RPi to cover 40 homes? I do not foresee that as a reliable solution. You’d be better off with everyone getting a Zoom subscription, so you can have voice, video, and chat. Not a bad idea now that I think about it.

 

[Thunderknight]

WAPs and a RPi to cover 40 homes? I do not foresee that as a reliable solution. You’d be better off with everyone getting a Zoom subscription, so you can have voice, video, and chat. Not a bad idea now that I think about it.

The OP says "The neighborhood is fairly small - about 250-300 yards in diameter."

That's less than 1000 feet in diameter.

Zoom requires internet (according to their website, even the option for hosting the actual content internally still has the user and metadata hosted at Zoom). OP doesn't want it to have internet as a requirement.

Here, maybe something like this: Create Your Own Home Intercom Using Raspberry Pi And Mumble

 

[belvdr]

The OP says "The neighborhood is fairly small - about 250-300 yards in diameter."

That's less than 1000 feet in diameter.

Zoom requires internet (according to their website, even the option for hosting the actual content internally still has the user and metadata hosted at Zoom). OP doesn't want it to have internet as a requirement.

Here, maybe something like this: Create Your Own Home Intercom Using Raspberry Pi And Mumble

On the other hand, the OP mentions using an app, which left me a bit confused. I think by Internet not being a requirement, I took that to mean a home Internet connection, so phone data plans excluded, but I could be wrong.

Setting up a WiFi networkfor a neighborhood would require a controller to manage them as a single unit, along with having enough external WAPs to get through all the housing. Not only that, if any home has Internet access, then they would need to flip between WiFi SSIDs to get Internet or communication. Using one Internet connection for the neighborhood also presents issues with data privacy along with other usability issues, like quality of service or landline service. I just don't see this as a good option.

 

[N4KVE]

Pick up some used Nextel phones that have the direct talk feature. In my development which is one square mile, I tested a pair, & there was nowhere I could go to fall out of range. And sometimes ten buildings were between the 2 radios. I don’t know if you can text with them, but the voice is very clear. I used them at the Orlando ham fest, from one end to the other, & they worked great, even with all the RF.

 

[ten13]

Zello......

Zello doesn't run on an Internet connection...it runs on the cell phone's service. They have different apps to operate on different services (Verizon, Sprint, etc), but they can all talk together.

You may be able to use a Wi-Fi connection as an alternative, but not required. You can communicate one-on-one individually, or establish a "channel" for group talk.

A little side-note to it: when you do a "channel search" on Zello, you'll find there are a LOT of different channels that people have established but, for some reason, have fallen out of interest. They have a lot of channels with zero participants. But...there's no loss if your group stops using it, because it didn't cost you anything.

Imagine if you invested in a radio system for a few bucks, and, after a year or less, no one used it?

 

[Thunderknight]

Zello doesn't run on an Internet connection...it runs on the cell phone's service. They have different apps to operate on different services (Verizon, Sprint, etc), but they can all talk together.

it’s using internet through the cell connection. It’s OTT, not carrier integrated PTT.
Verizon and AT&T both offer a carrier integrated PTT that is built on Kodiak Solution’s product (now owned by Motorola). Carrier PTT have quicker setup times and better QoS.