New Baltimore County P-25 System

[CqDx]

Woodlawn should be South site

 

[lebrunmn]

Site 101 is the North system and Site 102 is the South System. I have verified this by being in Dundalk and only being able to pick up site 102 and being in Maryland Line and only being able to pick up Site 101 and that was sitting under the towers with the antenna off of my scanner.

Nathan-

Thanks for confirming this... I think the database has North and South Sites reversed, and I was wondering why I was only able to copy the "North Site" from Curtis Bay.

 

[ocguard]

Site 101 is the North system and Site 102 is the South System. I have verified this by being in Dundalk and only being able to pick up site 102 and being in Maryland Line and only being able to pick up Site 101 and that was sitting under the towers with the antenna off of my scanner.

For the record 46.46 will stay for a while and the cutover is supposed to occur at the end of January if all goes well with the reprogramming.


Nathan

Strange. I'm listening from Stewartstown and have site 102 at 99% with site 101 in the 60-ish%. Wonder which tower is screaming in to SoYoCo from the south system.

 

[ocguard]

Just looked at the fire fleetmap. Very disappointed. Number one, it's VERY confusing. And number two, it's still way too heavy. The original SmartNetII system had way too many fire talk groups than could ever be used/monitored/handled by system capacity. And yet again, they set up 8 sets of 10 tactical talkgroups when the most they could ever need/use/handle would be about 6 sets of 5. This would make navigating the radios easier too. Oh well.

Also, whoever is updating the database, "BCFD" has traditionally been known as the abbreviation for Baltimore CITY Fire Department, while the abbreviation for the county is BCoFD.

 

[CqDx]

Is the switchover still planned at the end of January?

Thanks

 

[don333]

The cutover to the new radio system is scheduled for Saturday, February 11th at 0600. There is also a 24 hour test scheduled beginning Saturday, January 28th beginning at 0600 hours.

 

[ka3jjz]

Nathan-

Thanks for confirming this... I think the database has North and South Sites reversed, and I was wondering why I was only able to copy the "North Site" from Curtis Bay.

Assuming this is correct, I programmed the North site freqs - but have yet to hear any traffic. Of course, testing right now might be a bit spotty, and my schedule is a bit off, so it's possible I'm simply not around when testing is being conducted

Mike

 

[ocguard]

Can anyone confirm which sites carry the north system? I've been told it's only three sites, and just assumed Maryland Line, Hereford, and Spookhill, but I'm picking up the south system strongest in Stewartstown.

 

[vees]

Lots of radio shop testing today. Listen in if you're interested. I've got the P25 side on "search" as they work their way through the channels.

 

[ocguard]

I'm starting to think that this system wasn't really put together very well. I'm testing a radio from the Roland Park area, and it WILL NOT connect to the southern towers on the when on the talk groups marked "north."

I understand the concept of non-wide-area talk groups, but WHY!? Suppose there is a rescue in the extreme north end of the county, and it's assigned to one of the north talk groups. A swift water unit from Arbutus or a collapse wagon from Edgemere is responding and can't monitor the talk groups because they aren't in range of the northern system.

Hinky. All talk groups should be wide area and and all radios should roam on all talk groups.

Who is thinking this stuff up.

 

[troymail]

Take a look at the way the system and talkgroups are set up for Prince George's County's new system - they use North and South Zones too.

Prince George's County Trunking System, Various, Maryland - Scanner Frequencies

Prince George's County (Project 25) - The RadioReference Wiki

The talkgroup configuration and layout provides for "common" talkgroups across the county (dispatch, routine calls, rescue, etc.) while also having zones of talkgroups that are nearly completely zone based as well. In fact, in the case of PG, they also have zones/talkgroups in the layout that are completely TDMA -and- location based - zones 8G (TDMA only north) and 8H (TDMA only south) which cannot be used if/when the incident might require mutual aid response.

This isn't good for me (or you) if we want to listen to an incident that is on the Calvert County border when we're in Laurel (or in the case of Baltimore County - a call in Maryland Line when listening from Arbutus) but obviously they aren't designing the system for you and me.....

Seems like - at least in the PG case, they put a tremendous amount of thought into it (too much?) -- it just may not make sense to you and me for our needs. I suppose there must be a reason - better frequency usage? (more in the busy areas closer to the city and less in the rural areas, etc.). [note: this is really interesting given that it seemed not all that long ago that Motorola or some other vendor was pushing jurisdictions away from "zones" like north and south - towards shared frequency usage across the entire system but now they are doing just the opposite - but I guess that's because technology changes]

Having said all of that, until we really understand more about the Baltimore County system as it comes on line, it's hard to say if there will be similarities - but I suspect there will be.

EDIT: I do think it's possible that the North and South zones are labelled backwards in the RR database --

 

[ka3jjz]

There was an announcement this morning about the test of the 'new 911 center' and digital system starting this Saturday. Evidently there will be a limited number of talkgroups being used during the test.

Mike

 

[don333]

The test you are referring to will begin at 0600 this Saturday and will last for 24 hours.

 

[ocguard]

Take a look at the way the system and talkgroups are set up for Prince George's County's new system - they use North and South Zones too.

Prince George's County Trunking System, Various, Maryland - Scanner Frequencies

Prince George's County (Project 25) - The RadioReference Wiki

The talkgroup configuration and layout provides for "common" talkgroups across the county (dispatch, routine calls, rescue, etc.) while also having zones of talkgroups that are nearly completely zone based as well. In fact, in the case of PG, they also have zones/talkgroups in the layout that are completely TDMA -and- location based - zones 8G (TDMA only north) and 8H (TDMA only south) which cannot be used if/when the incident might require mutual aid response.

This isn't good for me (or you) if we want to listen to an incident that is on the Calvert County border when we're in Laurel (or in the case of Baltimore County - a call in Maryland Line when listening from Arbutus) but obviously they aren't designing the system for you and me.....

Seems like - at least in the PG case, they put a tremendous amount of thought into it (too much?) -- it just may not make sense to you and me for our needs. I suppose there must be a reason - better frequency usage? (more in the busy areas closer to the city and less in the rural areas, etc.). [note: this is really interesting given that it seemed not all that long ago that Motorola or some other vendor was pushing jurisdictions away from "zones" like north and south - towards shared frequency usage across the entire system but now they are doing just the opposite - but I guess that's because technology changes]

Having said all of that, until we really understand more about the Baltimore County system as it comes on line, it's hard to say if there will be similarities - but I suspect there will be.

EDIT: I do think it's possible that the North and South zones are labelled backwards in the RR database --

Well the frequency usage issue is really the only issue to restrict certain talk groups to specific systems, but, if your "zones" carry traffic based on affiliation, this will typically fix the problem.

I'm not 100% sure HOW talk groups will be assigned, but there is a NORTH divisional talk group and a handful of NORTH Tac talk groups, none of which would connect while I was at the city-county line, which makes me believe that they are restricted to the north system. PERHAPS, if a radio were affiliating in the north system, the talk group would have worked in the south system. My concern is of some system designer who wasn't in full knowledge of how the BCoFD worked. To take it one step further, even BC1 would probably not be able to connect to the north system with a portable radio from his station, and DEFINITELY not from FDHQ in Towson.

I fully understand that it's not an ideal design for those of us listening on scanners, but it leaves a lot of gaps for actual end-users too -- some of which probably haven't been fully thought out.

 

[troymail]

There has to be a whole assignment plan design to make sure the talkgroups assigned take all of the limitations into consideration. When I fist heard how the PG system worked, I though "how are they going to ensure when they use a north or south or a TDMA only channel they got it right?" Apparently there is alot of information in the CAD system that is assigning the channels. It will probably get it right most of the time but I'm sure there will be an exception/problem sooner or later.

Turns out that for PG there are many more countywide talkgroups that I originally thought and the limited talkgroups are somehow getting selected when possible (both N/S and TDMA only. Maybe someone down there who is reading can speak to any issues that may have cropped up but so far I haven't heard anyone reporting any issues.

Doesn't seem to leave alot of room for error -- so I too wonder why it is necessary to "tighten" things up like this.

I guess time will tell (assuming I can even hear anything anymore when they switch).

 

[fotoman128]

Anyone know , obviously I have to get the new system programmed in for Baltimore County, but just curious if my BC396XT should work on the new system, it picks up BCFD very well & I'm in Essex , so keeping my fingers crossed that I don't need a new scanner again.
Jimmy Long
fotoman128

 

[CqDx]

BCD396XT should have no problem on the new system since you are within the county.

It's not a new scanner that will help you pick up the system, the new P25 LSM trunked system are designed to limit the RF within the region it is engineered to cover. The latest and greatest won't help you hear anything if you can't receive the control channel!

 

[troymail]

Fire Department announcement yesterday (again) that the 24 test is scheduled to start today about 0630 (now!) and that they will be utilizing the "A" zone of the radio system.

Activity on the new system for the past hour or so (techs?) -- much of it on TGID 9649 (which is not in the RR database).

There is a fly-out gong on in (possibly in Pikesville) so the switch might be delayed for now (CMD reporting 8 paitents transport to hospitals)

Reception here is poor and the voice is pretty choppy in my location which is no suprise.

My reception continues to be on what is in RR as the "NORTH" site and I am receiving nothing on the "SOUTH" site -- even though I'm south of BWI airport -- so I still believe the RR site listing is backwards



0642: units doing test counts on the old analog system -- problem or just prep?

0657: dispatchers announce on analog talkgroups that the switchover has begun. Units are being directed over onto the new digital talkgroup for a roll call.

 

[troymail]

Police (at least some) now seem to be over on digital too.

 

[lgentle]

Just came downstairs (7:17 AM) and keep hearing about everyone switching their radios over to digital.