New Commerce Texas PD Repeater

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rbhtxk

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I noted that Commerce, TX PD was operating 159.47250000 MHz (a repeater output) with a DCS code of 412. I made the note on 8/20/2008 at approx 1720 hrs local. I have not heard the listed primary frequency (158.805 MHz) in more than two weeks. I was searching for CPD while driving through the area today. This new freq has been active all evening. I did not locate the input freq. Neither are listed in the FCC Database as being licensed to the City of Commerce or any entity in Hunt County. Submitted this as an update today.

Rob
 

txcop112

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I work for the Van Zandt Sheriff's Office and our radios havent recieved any Hunt Co traffic in years. I have tried different programming with the 114.8 ctcss. Not familiar with DPL and if needs to be inverted or not any clues for Hunt county.
 

SCPD

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this isn't rare of Hunt Co. agencies. Inter-County Communications is the primary Radio Company for MOST Hunt Co. Agencies, Bear-Com handles Most Hunt Co. Fire. many of Hunt Co., Commerce, Others License grants are issued through ICC or licensed Directly by ICC. So its almost best to Check ICC in the FCC Database for new Licenses. Many times too, smaller agencies not familiar with "How to" will license under a single name, like the Police Chief or something.

Stumbling across this post, I plugged in that frequency and Bingo - Commerce is Back! Nice Catch!
 

rattlerbb01

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Updated. If you guys can dig up why they are using VTAC14 for primary police ops, it would help. Kinda like Wichita Falls a few months ago simulcasting fire dispatch on 151.1375. Only they actually used 156.7 PL according to reports.
 

SCPD

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Probably the same Reason Greenville Police Department is Dispatching on 158.7375 - Awaiting Licenses. Which makes sence as to Why the frequency is showing no licensing information in the FCC GenMen database.
 

rattlerbb01

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Yeah, but they don't even have any pending applications. Both of those are VHF mutual aid frequencies, that although are licensed under normal circumstances where needed with a different PL tone, are being used. Maybe they have one of those agreements signed with Texas DPS for use of the frequencies and are going off of that. Who knows?
 

nd5y

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You can only operate mobiles on the interop frequencies without an additional license.
Base and repeaters have to have their own licenses. It sounds like they are just bootlegging.
 

SCPD

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Why would they give up a Perfectly good license and repeater to boot-leg off an inter-op frequency? this make no sence. Greenville did the same thing a year or so ago. Is their Radio & Frequency Coordination on dope? Best I could have seen were expiring licenses so they hi-jacked an In-Op frequency, but both Commerce & Greenville original licenses were still good for a few more years.
 

rattlerbb01

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You can only operate mobiles on the interop frequencies without an additional license.
Base and repeaters have to have their own licenses. It sounds like they are just bootlegging.
I didn't say it was legal, LOL. I hope the FCC doesn't read our forum. I doubt they would do more than just make a call and shake a finger anyhow.
 

SCPD

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I didn't say it was legal, LOL. I hope the FCC doesn't read our forum. I doubt they would do more than just make a call and shake a finger anyhow.
The FCC wont do much but the Radio Coordinator at DPS might scream bloody murder! Interesting chain of events, Commerce PD is using Both 154.1900 - 114.8 and this 159. frequency for Police operations. I am wondering if they went to the I/O as a temp while the Old repeater is down for some sort of maintenance.
 

rattlerbb01

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The FCC wont do much but the Radio Coordinator at DPS might scream bloody murder! Interesting chain of events, Commerce PD is using Both 154.1900 - 114.8 and this 159. frequency for Police operations. I am wondering if they went to the I/O as a temp while the Old repeater is down for some sort of maintenance.
Hmmmm.......
 

Russell

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Who does the radio service for Hunt County? It seems they tend to play a little looser with some of the licensing rules than everybody else. They are known to use non-licensed channels for other agencies, as well.

Greenville PD Dispatch on the VTac channel drives me crazy. 155.49 would seem to work fine for them. Aside from the VTac channel being an interop channel, you gotta love the "gentlemen" who apparently believes his comms are so sensitive that they are encrypted 100% of the time when everybody else is in the clear.

</soapbox off>

Russell
 
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SCPD

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Who does the radio service for Hunt County? It seems they tend to play a little looser with some of the licensing rules than everybody else. They are known to use non-licensed channels for other agencies, as well.

Greenville PD Dispatch on the VTac channel drives me crazy. 155.49 would seem to work fine for them. Aside from the VTac channel being an interop channel, you gotta love the "gentlemen" who apparently believes his comms are so sensitive that they are encrypted 100% of the time when everybody else is in the clear.

</soapbox off>

Russell
Just remember one thing - You Asked!

Inter-County Communications in Sulfur Springs is the Service for Most of Hunt County. They are the repeater techs and the main programmers. ICC also operate a LTR system with some Hunt Co. operations on it also. Many of the Smaller PD's despise ICC, they are Expensive and slow on service. 'Some' of Hunt Co. Fire Association used to buy from Bear Com Inc. but I can't verify that to be the case today.

There is NOTHING wrong with 155.4900 PL: 114.8 it is still Greenville PD analog and it is still VERY used. In repeater mode and simplex. I listen to it a lot.

There was Nothing wrong with the Commerce PD repeater when it switched over to the VTAC frequency. 158.8050 114.8 was broadcasting fine. then Poof! they vanished.

Hunt Co. is supposed to be complying and moving to APCO-25 format, I know they have requested new licenses and VHF just isn't available in rural Texas. Most Coordination people are moving NEW license applicants to Business Band VHF with special waivers from the FCC.

There is also a Belief among Rural radio service's that Public Safety can use ANY frequency in Public Safety pool with out a License at 2W or less and without causing interference. I STILL cannot find this written in any FCC rule.
 

nd5y

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There is also a Belief among Rural radio service's that Public Safety can use ANY frequency in Public Safety pool with out a License at 2W or less and without causing interference. I STILL cannot find this written in any FCC rule.
47CFR90.20 (f)(5)

(5) A Police licensee may use, without
special authorization from the
Commission, any mobile service frequency
between 40 and 952 MHz, listed
in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, for
communications in connection with
physical surveillance, stakeouts, raids,
and other such activities. Such use
shall be on a secondary basis to operations
of licensees regularly authorized
on the assigned frequencies. The maximum
output power that may be used
for such communications is 2 watts.
Transmitters, operating under this provision
of the rules, shall be exempted
from the station identification requirements
of § 90.425. Use of frequencies not
designated by a ‘‘PP’’ in the coordinator
column of the frequency table in
paragraph (c)(3) of this section, is conditional
on the approval of the coordinator
corresponding to each frequency.
 

rattlerbb01

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47CFR90.20 (f)(5)

(5) A Police licensee may use, without
special authorization from the
Commission, any mobile service frequency
between 40 and 952 MHz, listed
in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, for
communications in connection with
physical surveillance, stakeouts, raids,
and other such activities. Such use
shall be on a secondary basis to operations
of licensees regularly authorized
on the assigned frequencies. The maximum
output power that may be used
for such communications is 2 watts.
Transmitters, operating under this provision
of the rules, shall be exempted
from the station identification requirements
of § 90.425. Use of frequencies not
designated by a ‘‘PP’’ in the coordinator
column of the frequency table in
paragraph (c)(3) of this section, is conditional
on the approval of the coordinator
corresponding to each frequency.
Well I'll be......:D
 

Russell

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Yes, I did ask :)

I also knew about the two watt rule, but didn'r really know the 40 - 952 freq range. That's prety interesting.

So, if 155.49 works fine why not just move to P25 on that channel rather than carry out ops on the VTac channel? You say VHF just isn't available in rural Texas, but we see new narrowband freqs all the time. There seems to be plenty of channels available. Am I missing something?

Great dialog. I've always wondered why (and how) Hunt County operates the way it does. I know there's quite a bit going on over there, but I can't always hear it and I'm not that far away. Keep sending the good info.

Thanks,
Russell
 
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rbhtxk

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Central Mississippi
Back on 158.805 NFM DCS 116

We'll, after not hearing any traffic on the new and then the old freq and pl for the last two weeks, I drove through this morning and found the PD back on 158.805 NFM using a DCS tone of 116. There has been very sporadic traffic the last few hours, but this sounds like them. Can someone else verify that is within range?
 

Boulder

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Wood County, TX
I heard some faint traffic on 158.805 but couldn't really hear very well or get a squelch tone. It was law enforcement traffic though as I could hear they were running 27-28's but was hard to hear where it was coming back from. If no one else can verify that info I will be in Commerce this weekend and I will check it out.
 

rbhtxk

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Central Mississippi
158.805 NFM using a DCS tone of 116

They are definitely on 158.805 NFM using a DCS tone of 116. I'll submit an update to the database ASAP.
 

SCPD

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Yup, they are back there because someone filed a complaint with the State for them running Dispatch on a State Inter-op channel. The Radio service for Hunt Co. Agencies is Inter-County Comm out of S-Springs. apparently this isn't the first screw up ICC has made. ICC put Greenville on the Inter-op channels too then ALSO sold them radio's which didn't meet State requirements. These ICC guys have no Clue what "Inter-Interoperability" means, they just see "FREE LICENSE" and move everyone to it.
 
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