New DPS Radio System

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RadioJonD

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Throughout my almost twenty-five year state career I have seen the start of really good plans. Then through the political machine they go. When the plans emerge from there, what is left is a stripped down skeleton or padded up hippo that is useless for it's intended purpose. Sadly, this is what might happen to the new DPS radio system that they have been struggling to implement since around 1988 or so.
 

Albamma

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State of Alabama New Radio System ?

:idea: I'm all for a new radio system to cover the entire state ( only if I can hear it. ) The biggest problem the State of Alabama will have is getting the funds. What about a low band radio system ? (Around 45 mhz or lower.) Would it work in Alabama if it was done right ? I know Mississippi still uses the low band system. One idea I have is to better use the State Net Frequency ( 155.010 ). Why let small towns tie up the frequency with dispatching a single police officer or two ?
 

RadioJonD

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Funny you should mention Low-Band. A fellow DPS employee (who lurks around these forums) and I have always kind of jokingly said that we should just go low band like TN & MS. However, getting licensed for and implementing a low band system would cost more now than the system currently being installed. And any system would probably work if installed "right". The political machine always seems to take away that option. Aahh!, that brings us back around to funding.
 
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Lowband DPS system

I agree (from a technical standpoint) that a VHF low-band system would
work well in Alabama, considering the large areas that Troopers cover
and that most of their work is done in rural areas. I recall monitoring
the old Jefferson County Sheriff system with my first scanner in the late 70's. they used 3 channels in the 45.00Mhz band and it worked great with
all the hills & valleys in that area and with mobile-extenders a deputy
could get coverage almost everywhere (except in buildings, ect.).
I know the trend is to digital & 800Mhz but I say whatever gets the
message through is best!
 

INDY72

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The trend in MS is to move away from Lo band, many agencies are emplementing Hi band/UHF nets for statewide usage. DPS is seriously looking into a combination VHF-Hi/UHF statewide net. The mobile command/EOC is now fully hooked up with Hi band/UHF and many other agencies including MEMA, and DWF&P use satelite comms with Hi band,.. they use Lo band for rural EOC comms and for car to car in regards to DWF&P. Lo band is still the main MHP usage, but they are looking to switch asap. Most of the county SO's have gone to new Hi band repeaters, and have let all but statewide Lo go. There are still a few that use it but they are now a minority. Now in MS to hear most counties, you need to monitor VHF Hi, UHF, or trunked systems in all three flavors-VHF Hi, UHF, and 800. At least there are only a few digital systems here as of now, but they are being pressured to go digital asap. Amazing what you can make a agency do when you tell them you will no longer offer support for thier systems huh?
 

Thunderbolt

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Across the border in Ontario, Canada, they are currently implementing a VHF-High band TRS to replace their older systems currently operating in the same band. Moreover, they are recycling frequency pairs that had been abandoned or in use from their old NOR TRS, which is currently being phased out in the 141-143.9875 MHz., band. However, a more acute problem is the even shorter supply of VHF-High band frequencies in your state.

I really think that planning a system in UHF band would be the better alternative and I believe there are more frequencies available in your area for implementation of a statewide TRS. Likewise, the same applies to neighboring Mississippi.

Currently, Motorola's ASTRO 6.3 platform, allows the use of TRS that covers VHF, UHF, and 800 MHz., all in one package. Correct me if I am wrong, but this means a future trunking system could use more than one radio band to accomplish its aims, or be used to migrate users from one band to another over a period of time.


73's

Ron
 

eddiemax

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Seems like DPS could use the equipment they already have and add repeaters to accomodate them. Trunking requires adding multiple repeater sites, so why not use VHF repeaters? I understand why large cities and counties with several agencies needing to use a system in a smaller area would need a trunked system, but the DPS is spread over a larger area with fewer agencies using the system. I can see why coverage would be a problem with a simlex system such as the one they are using. Is this really about the coverage of their radio system, or having all the high tech gagets that are available with each tax increase? The forestry commision uses VHF repeaters for the same coverage areas, but they aren't bothered by not having MDTs and being heard by those of us who pay for their system with money we could use to buy our own toys. I guess we should hire some more consultants and pay them another couple of million to see what will work after the contract has been signed. I didn't need that new scanner or ham radio anyhow I don't suppose.
 

wwhitby

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Even though i'm not in the business of designing and setting up radio systems, I do think that if DPS was serious about it, they could upgrade their existing VHF system and get better reception, without having to spend a huge amount of money.

Think about it: add repeaters in areas where coverage isn't that good (the Tennessee Highway Patrol did the same thing) or just add repeaters. Add CTCSS tones to eliminate interference from other posts or out of state users. Add other frequency pairs. In other words, they could do more - at probably less cost - without have to go UHF or 800Mhz. The Forrestry Commission is the best example of how to build a system - and they use "old-hat" VHF!

Trunked systems are the latest thing go have. You've got the public safety equivelent of keeping up with the Jones', with the justification for the new system is that the old one is antiquated. That's kind of a pet peeve of mine, because it may be the infastructure (you may not have repeaters in newly annexed areas) or hardware that is antiquated and not the frequencies. I did read that one of the reasons that Montgomery went to a trunked system was to replace its "antiquated UHF system."

I have been doing research on the new DPS system, and most of what i've found has dealt with interchange of data for fingerprints, criminal records, mugshots, etc. Starting with the Motorola press release, I learned that the name for the system in Alabama is called LEISS, and its part of the Integrated Justice project. Radio communication wise, i've only been able to find out two things as part of that project: 1) I saw the minutes from a meeting that mentioned that DPS had checked into 700Mhz, but it was too expensive, and 2) the statement that DPS is looking into a new radio system. That's all that i've been able to find. The LEISS steering committee did survey state/county/city law enforcement agencies, and in addition to computer/networking information, they did ask about radio communications used by those agencies.

As far as trunked 800Mhz systems in hilly areas, two years ago I worked a missing person search in the Graysville area with the Jefferson County SO as a Ground Team Leader with Civil Air Patrol. The SO Sergeant in charge told me that their 800Mhz system didn't work in that area. In fact, the deputies that we were searching with were using Motorola FRS handhelds to communicate!

Warren
 

eddiemax

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An interesting study of the Jeffco trunked system ended with some interesting recommendations a few years back, and they were never implemented. ( try "parca 800mhz" in a Google search)

There are several 800mhz conventional repeaters patched into the trunked system because there are many areas in the county where the system cannot be accessed by mobile or handheld radios.

During a recent manhunt, an aircraft from Tuscaloosa came up to assist, and its Vhf radio (155.01), was patched into an 800mhz repeater with no problems. The DPS Vhf radios could be patched into trunked systems as well, when needed. This is a common practice in JeffCo when directing Lifesaver helicopter (also using 155.01), into the scene of an accident.

Bottom line, if an area the size of Jefferson County cannot utilize an 800mhz system without adding dedicated repeaters, how many additional repeaters would the DPS need statewide to make a trunked system work? I think you could compare it to installing a whole cellular telephone system statewide to get an idea.
 

INDY72

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For a basic look at just what is requred for statewide 800 coverage systems look at South Caroilina's Palmetto 800, The newly being built out North Carolina 800 System, the Louisianna 800. These will give you an idea of what it takes to do a statewide 800. As for the Palmetto 800 in SC, it has proven thusfar to be a great success. NC is hoping that thiers which is based on SC's and LA's will also prove a great success. LA, has been very good, but has had some issues, which is being addressed with the upgrades and future 700 MHz additions. But as the costs are very very high, and the problems in some locations in regards to 800 MHz, many states are indeed looking into VHF TRS for statewide including the building Texas system, and the being thought out Mississippi combination VHF/UHF TRS. One great thing that has been tossed out about the Palmetto and the NC state 800 TRS systems is that they will be interlinked for emergency ops during magor disasters such as hurricanes. Concievably one day the entire southeast will be interlinkable with a vast networked TRS system. Each will be stand alone capable but can be linked for interoperability.
 

emcom

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We are hoping that the state will be able to repair the EMA statewide UHF radio system (you have seen these listed since the 1970's as WRA***). It used to work pretty well, but was not kept up after Southern Linc moved in. Linc has coverage gaps in rural areas of North Alabama since we are in TVA's area, not Alabama Power.

The system used uhf repeaters linked in a fashion similar to the forestry repeater system mentioned above.

Several of the sites are off air now, including the ones in Huntsville and Muscle Shoals due to no money for maintenance. Rats got into our repeater rack in Huntsville and contributed to its decline.
 

eddiemax

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An interesting note: today I heard a transmission on the State's mobile extender frequency for the first time in western Jefferson County ( 859.4875 mhz). The call sign indicated it was the Tuscaloosa post. Anyone else getting any hits in this area?
 

RadioJonD

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Eddiemax, I'm not in your area, but if you heard traffic on 859.4875, the trooper must have been very close to you. The mobile extender/800 MHz handheld is what we in DPS call a brick. They are GEs from around 1990 vintage and weigh alot. Sometimes I have the extender programmed in the radio room and can tell when a trooper is in or around the office by hearing his/her radio. Whatever is scanning in the mobile unit is what you will hear over an extender. The mobile radio can also be used to access various 800 trunked sites throughout the state as well as the five nationwide mutual aid 800MHz freqs. Not all troopers have them.
 

wwhitby

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The mobile radio can also be used to access various 800 trunked sites throughout the state

That explains how I one heard a trooper talking to the Montgomery County SO dispatcher on talkgroup 289!

Warren
 
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The Alabama Highway Patrol needs to have a state owned and operated trunked radio system. Over the years, the AHP has been left out in the cold when it comes to updating facilities and structures within the State Government. Many years ago, the AHP could not afford to purchase cars for the troopers, so a few troopers even used their own car to protect and serve the State of Alabama.

Put our taxpayers dollars to work! In the USA! :roll:
 

wwhitby

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I'm not an expert, but why spend the money for a new system and infastructure when you could spend less money and fix the problems with the existing system? If there are dead spots, put in a repeater. Interference? Add additional frequencies (many of which DPS already is licensed for.)

Unfortunately, providing a better radio system for the Troopers or even putting more Troopers on the roadway isn't a priority right now........

Warren
 

kingpin

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New state 800 freqs.

I noticed on a mailing list I get about FCC updates here in Alabama, the state has been licesensed for several 800 MHz sites.


YP WPNX328
ALABAMA, STATE OF
MONTGOMERY, AL
[department of public safety]
ctrl pt 1 - 1038 COLISEUM BLVD MONTGOMERY AL 334-242-4139
06/02/04 License Renewed
1 - FEMELA DRIVE DOGWOOD SUBDIVISION TUSCUMBIA (COLBERT) AL
856.4625 127' FB2C 316e
857.4625 127' FB2C 316e
858.4625 127' FB2C 316e
859.4625 127' FB2C 316e
860.4625 127' FB2C 316e
2 - 50 KMRA around site 1
811.4625 MO 1560x30e
812.4625 MO 1560x30e
813.4625 MO 1560x30e
814.4625 MO 1560x30e
815.4625 MO 1560x30e

ALABAMA, STATE OF - SAFETY SPECIAL EMERGENCY
MONTGOMERY, AL
[department of public safety 2-way mobile communications]
ctrl pt 1 - 1338 COLISEUM BLVD MONTGOMERY AL 334-242-4239
05/21/04
05/21/04 Administrative Update Applied
1 - US 31 AT MILL ST DECATUR (MORGAN) AL
856.2125 321' FB2C 316e
857.2125 321' FB2C 316e
858.2125 321' FB2C 313e
859.2125 321' FB2C 313e
860.2125 321' FB2C 313e
2 - 50 KMRA around site 1
811.2125 MO 1560x30e
812.2125 MO 1560x30e
813.2125 MO 1560x30e
814.2125 MO 1560x30e
815.2125 MO 1560x30e

YF WNWJ995
ALABAMA, STATE OF - DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
MONTGOMERY, AL
[governmental entity providing communications for public safety]
ctrl pt 1 - 1150 SCHILLIGER ROAD N MOBILE AL 251-574-4030
07/16/03 License Modified
1 - Land Mob Ctrl Sta Mtg 20 Rule
821.4125 FX1 8x40e
821.4375 FX1 8x40e
821.4625 FX1 8x40e
821.9125 FX1 8x40e
822.0125 FX1 8x40e
822.4125 FX1 8x40e
822.4375 FX1 8x40e
822.4625 FX1 8x40e
822.5125 FX1 8x40e
822.9125 FX1 8x40e
823.0125 FX1 8x40e
823.4125 FX1 8x40e
823.4375 FX1 8x40e
823.4625 FX1 8x40e
823.9125 FX1 8x40e
2 - ST HWY 59 3.8 MI E RABUN (BALDWIN) AL
866.4125 FB2C 216e
866.9125 FB2C 216e
867.4125 FB2C 216e
868.4125 FB2C 216e
3 - 348 N MC GREGOR AVE MOBILE (MOBILE) AL
866.0125 FB2 175e
866.5125 FB2 175e
4 - AL Statewide
821.4125 MO 3601x75e
821.4375 MO 3601x75e
821.4625 MO 3601x75e
821.9125 MO 3601x75e
822.0125 MO 3601x75e
822.4125 MO 3601x75e
822.4375 MO 3601x75e
822.4625 MO 3601x75e
822.5125 MO 3601x75e
822.9125 MO 3601x75e
823.0125 MO 3601x75e
823.4125 MO 3601x75e
823.4375 MO 3601x75e
823.4625 MO 3601x75e
823.9125 MO 3601x75e
5 - 348 N MCGREGOR AVE MOBILE (MOBILE) AL
866.4375 350' FB2C 175e
867.4375 350' FB2C 175e
867.9125 350' FB2C 175e
868.4375 350' FB2C 175e
868.9125 350' FB2C 175e
6 - 12900 MOFFAT ROAD WILMER (MOBILE) AL
866.4625 400' FB2C 175e
867.4625 400' FB2C 175e
868.0125 400' FB2 175e
868.4625 400' FB2C 175e
7 - 10201 FOUR MILE ROAD EXT BAYOU LA BATRE (MOBILE) AL
867.0125 400' FB2 175e
8 - 18325 HWY 45 CITRONELLE (MOBILE) AL
867.5125 380' FB2 175e
 
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