New Info on ASTRO SABER 111

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BRIAN99

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Hello Everyone:
I found out that the radios that are being gold are from Memphis Tenn.
When I checked the Tennasee discussion forum I found out that Memphis has just gotten
rid of their VSELP system . I am making an assumption that these radios are probably the now obsolite radios from Memphis.
I would appreciate any info as to weather it just being a 800Mghz VSELP radio would make it capable of receiving Trenton or is there much more involved.
PS --The radio I was looking at went for $304. Their are more but I do not want to waste money on something that will not match up. Also Memphis upgraded to APCO25.

Thank You,
Brian
 

DJ88

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Although I know very little about this topic and using common sense only as a reference, it would appear that the radio is programmed for the Memphis sysyem, and therefore you would have to find someone willing to reprogram it to receive the Trenton system. Even if you could find someone who would be willing to do this for you, they would have to have the system key, which Rocket NJ stated in a prior thread on this topic, would be difficult to obtain. You would need to find someone who simply has it or has programmed radios for Trenton in the past.

From a legal standpoint, I would assume, and I could be wrong here, due to the fact that you don't have any authorization to possess a radio to monitor Trenton, you would breaking the law, and the person who would program it for you would be breaking the law also. Is this a chance either of you are willing to take? You, it appears the answer would be yes. Someone who could program it for you? More than likely not. And if you could find someone to do it for you, I'm sure they would want to make it well worth their while financially.

Something else to think about also. You don't know what's going on behind the walls at City Hall in Trenton. Being that the VSELP system is outdated, the powers that be there may already be considering dumping it in favor of a new system. You could pick up your local newspaper tomorrow and see this in black and white. If this happens, your radio would be rendered useless. You might wind up spending big bucks for something that will only be of use to you in the short term.

Taking all of this into consideration, if you're still adament about getting this radio, more power to you and good luck.

BTW, just a word of advice, you have three threads going here on this topic. It's always good practice once you've started a thread on a specific topic to post all of your questions and comments on that one thread. There's no need to post a new thread each time you have something to add to that topic.
 
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Tech792

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It is true that Memphis was VSELP. So this radio prob would work. But you would still need the proper programming parameters for the radio to decode properly. And the radio techs are prob the only ones that know it. Unless you know one of the radio techs or some one high up in the police dept, I would abandon this idea.
 
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BRIAN99

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I guess I will have to wait since I no longer know anyone in Trenton PD who could get it programed. Since people are buying these radios I thought their might be a common program for VSELP operation. I fogot about the key code that is required to operate the radio. I never heard of that before. I use to know a dispatcher for Trenton but he has moved on.
As far as it being illegal --why would that be-just because it is VSELP-Then it should also be illegal to monitor APCO-25. As long as your not transmitting I do not think there is allot to worry about. I have been monitoring Trenton PD since the time before scanners and you had to attach a module to the back of a transistor radio for reception.

Thank You,
Brian WX2A
 

ctrabs74

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BRIAN99 said:
As far as it being illegal --why would that be-just because it is VSELP-Then it should also be illegal to monitor APCO-25. As long as your not transmitting I do not think there is allot to worry about. I have been monitoring Trenton PD since the time before scanners and you had to attach a module to the back of a transistor radio for reception.
I think the point is that since the Trenton PD is not monitorable by any consumer scanner (even though it's technically considered non-encrypted VSLEP), I believe the point that's being made is that in order to use an ASTRO Saber radio to monitor Trenton, you have to have formal authorization (most likely written) from someone within that department to monitor Trenton PD on a Saber radio. This is different from Ewing Twp's APCO25 ENC system, which even neighboring LE agencies - including Trenton - can't monitor, much less the press or general public.

Unless you're an accredited member of the press or a member of a law enforcement agency within Mercer County (I would think that the neighboring dispatch PSAPs would be able to monitor Trenton PD since it's not technically considered an ENC system; departments that are APCO25 and clear usually will provide compatible mobiles/portables to neighboring depts, but it seems to be a case-by-case basis), I seriously doubt they will grant you said authorization. Point is, don't bother with the Saber at this point, cause it'll probably be worthless in the near future.

Hopefully, Trenton will (a) upgrade to APCO-25 and (b) not encrypt PD. But, this being Jersey, who knows what will happen...
 
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FuelForFire

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As way stated in the other two threads... VSELP is NOT encryption.There is nothing illegal about monitoring it. The legal issue arises from the system key needed to program the radio onto the trunk system - as with any trunk system. If some agency is using VSELP on a conventional channel then it is 100% legal to use your astro saber to monitor it. If you were to program an astro saber to monitor the trunk system using a conventional scan list - although it would not be very effective - you would be able to monitor the VSELP transmissions legally.

But as you said it is hardly worth the money to monitor one system for a short time until they end up upgrading their system.
 

PJH

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The system key is only available from two places:

1-Motorola
2-The Trenton system administrator

Trunking radio's are different in the sense that they need to be programmed with certain restricted software files, and authorization. Trunking systems are computers as well. This is where people get jammed up who accidently or delibrately transmit on them. They get nailed with a computer crime as well as any other crimes that are on the books.

At the most, you can only scan 10 channels with a trunked Motorola radio anyways. In time, Trenton will convert over to a P25 system as support for the older codec will come to an end.

Either way, if your out and about and you have the radio and happen to run into, stopped by a cop, and they hear their radio traffic, be prepard to lose a few hours of your life.
 

hulka

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Motorola has the System Key Software to generate a "System Key", but you still need the proper key to have access to the system. There are a lot of diffrent varibles in it, so it is not like plugging in some numbers and you are set. I would buy a digital scanner, yes I know you can not monitor their current system with a digital scanner, but since motorola does not support their system or the Astro Saber for that matter also anymore, sooner or later they will have to upgrade to something current.
 
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BRIAN99

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Thank you for the input once again. As -Fuel for Fire said there is nothing illegal about monitoring a system that is not encrypted. I'm just a Ham Radio operator who also likes to listen to Police activity. At one time there were ocassions where a scanner listener helped the police aprehend criminals. I know things are not the same now and drug dealers and such could use scanner information for their benifit. I also think you would have to be a complete idiot to ride around blasting your scanner from your vehicle. I have never used a scanner in my vehicle.
The Police know very litlle about the radios they carry. Not long ago a friend of mine's house was raided by mistake by the Trenton PRO-ACTIVE UNIT. They took every transmitter and ht in the house. The problem was that every radio was an HF Transmitter or other ham radio equipment wich could not receive the police. That made no diferance-they labeled them all as scanners and took everything for good.
I am a patient person but it has been 3 years since I first heard that Trenton was going to change to APCO-25. Iam not getting any younger and I thought this Astro Saber would work.I thought that since it only has 16 channels trunking would not be an issue if it is able to scan them without a system key. I must admit I do not know allot about the new technoligy. I do not know what a system key is. I guess I better keep my $300 and not take an ignorant chance.
Thanks Everyone
Brian--WX2A
 

SCANdal

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BRIAN99 said:
The Police know very litlle about the radios they carry. Not long ago a friend of mine's house was raided by mistake by the Trenton PRO-ACTIVE UNIT. They took every transmitter and ht in the house. The problem was that every radio was an HF Transmitter or other ham radio equipment wich could not receive the police. That made no diferance-they labeled them all as scanners and took everything for good.
99,

For good? Please elaborate on this. If your friend is a licensed amateur radio operator, has he contacted an attorney-at-law and begun legal action against the Trenton Police Department - at the very least in an effort to get back what I presume is his rightfully owned equipment?

SCANdal
 
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BRIAN99

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To Scandal-an Attorney was retained for this case but the legal fee's would have been more money than the equipment was worth at that time(1994). To the best of my knowledge even though my friend was licensed and no charges were filed against him the Police kept his equipment. Not long after this incident the Trenton Pro Active Unit was charged with stealing items (expensive Wine& Jewlery) from several raids. I do not remember who was charged with what but it did make the papers. My friend and former
Trenton P.D. dispatcher said that the Pro Active unit did not work with the regular police and regarded themselves as an entity and therefore this set up a fertile ground for coruption. I have know idea what use they would have had for Amatuer Radio equipment.

Brian
PS Death to VSELP
 
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TonyS

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Brian, as others have noted, you could monitor the system with an IMBE equipped A/S and selecting the digital squelch type to Digital CSQ, but you'll hear all traffic on the freqs, including the control channels. You won't be able to discern who is who; you won't be able to lock out any talkgroups like you can with a scanner.
 

Tech792

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Again, this will not work. IMBE & VSELP are two totally different things. I think its time to throw the old lock on this one.
 

TonyS

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Tech792 said:
Again, this will not work. IMBE & VSELP are two totally different things. I think its time to throw the old lock on this one.
I agree. What he's trying to do would be better suited for a digital scanner, if they're not running encrypted to begin with.
 

mancow

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He can't use a digital scanner. They don't make digital VSELP scanners. I don't see what the problem is in what he want's to do ( trunking sytem access aside ). As long as he programs it up in conventional and puts up with the jumping conversations what's the problem?
 

carbineone

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Unlike p25 astro radios Vselp radios do not have a carrier squelch setting so the conventional channel method won't work.
 

BRIAN99

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So I guess this is final. A VSELP radio( 800mgz) from Memphis will not work in Trenton.

PS- I do not think there would be a with cross talk since the only service using VSELP is Trenton P.D.

Brian
 

PJH

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Could it work? Yes, however there are too many programming varibles that you would most likely not have access to in order to get it to properly work.
 

BRIAN99

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VSELP CHECK Astro Saber 111

Hello Everyone; I was told to check BATLAB to see if a radio I am interested in is a VSELP
radio. I failed. I would appreciate it if someone who is knowledgeable in this area could find out. I have the following information.

MODEL# H04UCH9PW7AN
SERIAL# 310AWQ0562
FCC ID # AZ489FT5750
DSP # 105.00.18
AP-RO 3.20.04
FLASHPORT CODE 400004000000008


Thank You,
Brian
 
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