Kenwood: New Kenwood TH-D75

Kenwood TH-D75

  • I'm really looking forward to buying this radio.

    Votes: 16 14.2%
  • May consider buying this radio and some point.

    Votes: 46 40.7%
  • Not interested in this radio.

    Votes: 27 23.9%
  • D-Star is dead, Jim.

    Votes: 24 21.2%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .

alcahuete

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Apparently some Kenwood and D-Star fanboys were offended in the other thread, so let's go with this one, specifically about the new TH-D75, and its associated digital mode. Awfully hard to discuss a new digital radio without talking about its digital mode as well.



d75a.png

Kenwood TH-D75A 144/220/430MHz TRIBANDER​

· APRS Protocol Compliant - To exchange GPS location data and messages in real-time.
· D-STAR with Simultaneous Reception on DV mode - Compatible for transferring voice and digital data over D-STAR networks.
· Reflector Terminal mode to access D-STAR Reflectors
· USB Type-C for Data Transfer and Charging
· Built-in Digipeater station to transmit received data
· Built-in GPS Unit
· Easy-to-Read Transflective Color TFT Display
· Call Sign Readout
· Tough & Robust - meets IP54/55 Standards
· Wide-band and multi-mode reception
· Built-in IF Filter for comfortable reception (SSB/CW)
· DSP-based Voice Processing and Reputable KENWOOD Custom tuned Sound Quality
· Bluetooth, microSD/SDHC Memory Card Slot for Flexible link with a PC



Unfortunately, it looks like Kenwood is once again missing the mark with their latest offering. This radio appears to be just a re-issue of the TH-D74, which has almost exactly the same case, exact same display, and darn near the exact same features of the TH-D75. In fact, it looks like the only real new feature is the USB-C port. I'm sure it took the Kenwood brain trust considerable time and effort to come up with that one, and the very minor case design that went with it.

Kenwood is leading the way on the LMR side of the shop, with innovative new radios. They cover DMR, NXDN, and P25 all in one radio. Yet this new amateur radio only covers the same boring D-Star, completely dead in comparison to DMR. Why not take their existing technology and produce a radio that covers Analog, D-Star, DMR, NXDN, and P25 all in one box? The things would sell like hot cakes. I would be first in line to buy one. In fact, I'd buy two. No matter where you are, or which repeaters are in the area, you will likely be able to use them. You have all the major bands and all the modes covered, with the exception of 23cm and System Fusion, but if you thought D-Star was dead, System Fusion is REALLY dead. Then imagine a mobile radio to go along with the new handheld! You get the features of their phenomenal LMR line, with the ease of amateur radio features (VFO, programming, memories, etc.) and firmware.

Hopefully the Kenwood and D-Star fanboys will enjoy their TH-D74 rev. 2 with new and improved USB-C charging. I will not be adding this radio to my collection.
 

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vagrant

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I'm fine with the D74. In fact, a used D74 model has been selling for more than retail based on sales I observed on QRZ. Of course there are many other avenues for sales of that used radio. Based on facts and not conjecture, I would say it is a design operators like. Another fact is that the number of D-Star repeaters in Japan increased over 300 in the last 10 years or so. Myself and others are having fun with Kenwood handhelds.

Still, I understand the point of your want of the do all unicorn handheld. I will tell others when we chat using System Fusion this weekend.
 

n2nov

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Another fact is that the number of D-Star repeaters in Japan increased over 300 in the last 10 years or so.
If you live in Japan then that would be a good thing.
Here in the NYC area, you can count the number of
D-Star repeaters on one hand and that has not had
an increase in 15 years.
 

alcahuete

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I'm fine with the D74. In fact, a used D74 model has been selling for more than retail based on sales I observed on QRZ. Of course there are many other avenues for sales of that used radio. Based on facts and not conjecture, I would say it is a design operators like.
I like it too. I have used one a few times on analog and liked it a lot. But are people really going to pay $700+ for a 2016 radio with a USB-C port? For all intents and purposes, that's what the D75 is.

The technology for the "unicorn" radio is already there...it's made by Kenwood themselves. I'm not really sure why they wouldn't take advantage of that in the amateur radio line.
 

vagrant

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It is interesting when people lament about a mode not used/popular in their area and ponder why a product is made.

Anyways, how big would a handheld be that actually had all those digital modes? How robust would it need to be as well, given the cost it would be? Would it be like my APX7000? For a those that don’t know, the APX is a brick with an antenna.
 

AK9R

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This radio appears to be just a re-issue of the TH-D74, which has almost exactly the same case, exact same display, and darn near the exact same features of the TH-D75. In fact, it looks like the only real new feature is the USB-C port.
Before I dive into my thoughts on this topic, here's something to keep in mind about JVC Kenwood. I've watched their annual report videos for the past two years and what I've learned is that ALL communications products are about 25-26% of JVCK's business. That means that their engineering, production, and marketing resources are mostly tied up doing other things. With the part of the business that does communications, they are busy with land mobile products so there's not much left for amateur radio.

OK, let's say you are the high-level executive at Kenwood responsible for amateur radio. You look at your current product line and see, well, nothing. Your handhelds are gone because of chip availability problems. Your FM mobiles are gone for the same reason. Your HF radios are mostly gone and way behind the SDR technology that Brand I and Brand Y are using. What do you do?

One option is to do nothing. And, that's what most people had assumed about Kenwood. "Kenwood is out of amateur radio" was what I heard from many hams over the past months.

Another option is to take what you know and find ways to slowly and methodically work yourself back into the amateur radio market. Do you design a new SDR-based HF radio to compete with the IC-7300 and FTdx-10? Well, if you don't already have an SDR design in the works, the engineering effort to get a product ready for market would be significant (remember, not many resources are available). Do you design a new dual-band FM mobile? Well, you could and you already know how to do that. Since they didn't do that, one assumption I'll make is that the Kenwood production lines are so busy cranking out NX-series mobiles that you'd never get a TM-D710 replacement scheduled. Or, do you take what you know about the TH-D74 and try to resurrect it? Well, maybe.

Am I disappointed in what we know so far about the TH-D75? Yes, I am. Why did I emphasize "what we know so far"? It was obvious to me that the radio showed at Hamvention was a pre-production prototype. While the radio on display was turned on, you never saw the display show anything except 438.100 on the A band and 438.500 on the B band. Don Arnold mentioned in one of the videos I saw that he had been expressly told don't "do anything with the radio". I took that to mean that he was not supposed to press any buttons or turn any dials. Who knows what might have happened if he had. Don did post some additional photos showing different stuff on the display, but they were obviously studio shots not taken at Hamvention. Don was asked several questions about the radio's features to which he answered "I don't know". Don also told multiple people "we'll know more at Ham Radio Friedrichshafen" or "we'll know more at Tokyo Ham Fair". What Kenwood displayed at Hamvention is not ready for prime time. Not even close.

As for the radio they showed, same case as the TH-D74? No. The TH-D75 case has more rounded corners in some aspects and more angular features in other aspects compared to the TH-D74. That tells me that Kenwood made the investment to redesign the molds for the case and that is not a trivial exercise in the injection molding business. Are the button layout and the general arrangement of display, buttons, and speaker the same? Yes. That tells me that Kenwood may be assembling the new radio using the same fixtures as the old radio (back to saving limited resources).

Same display as the TH-D74? Yes. Same technology, according to Don Arnold, and same layout. I'm OK with that because the TH-D74 display presents a lot of information in a readable format.

Same features as the TH-D74? Yeah, for the most part. USB-C charging and data is important and sets this radio apart from the top-of-the-line Brand Y radio which uses mini-USB for data and a barrel connector for charging. APRS digipeater is important to some, though if I thought I was going into a situation where I'd need a digi, I'd put together a different package assuming I recognized the need ahead of time. Dual simultaneous reception in DV mode and reflector terminal mode are only important to D-STAR users.

Will the amateur radio community pay for a TH-D75 given that it's "a 2016 radio with a USB-C port"? When the TH-D74 went out of production, the used price skyrocketed. Are people getting what they are asking for used TH-D74s? I don't know. But, think about this for a moment: The folks, like me, who already have a TH-D74 are going to think real hard about the value of that USB-C port and may not buy the new radio. But, what about the guy who always wanted the feature set of the TH-D74, but hasn't been able to buy one for the past 2.5 years? I suspect that they are the market that Kenwood hopes will step up to buy the new radio.

Now, for the elephant in the room. Wearing my moderator's hat, I did not want to see a thread about Kenwood's somewhat miraculous presence at Hamvention, a thread that I started, devolve into an amateur radio digital voice mode debate. Do I care that the TH-D75 has D-STAR? No. Do I think they should have incorporated a different mode? I'm not sure. Am I a D-STAR fan boy? No effing way. I've owned my TH-D74 for about 6 years and I can count the number of D-STAR contacts I've made with it or any other radio on the knuckles of one finger.

Could Kenwood have produced the "unicorn" radio? Yeah, sure. They obviously know how to do many DV modes and I assume they could figure out System Fusion. But, at what cost? When JVCK gets around to allowing P25, NXDN, and DMR to be installed on a VP-8000, what will it cost? Would an amateur radio community that snaps up Baofengs like chocolate chips pay that kind of money? I highly doubt it. Meanwhile, the TH-D75 gets Kenwood back into the amateur radio market. And, I'm all for that.
 
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alcahuete

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Anyways, how big would a handheld be that actually had all those digital modes?
I would assume as big or not much bigger than the 5300, which currently does analog, DMR, P25, NXDN. The 5300 is not a big radio by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not a designer at Motorola, but the large design seems to be more for functionality (i.e. Police, Fire, Paramedics operating the radio with gloves on) rather than needing to be that large to fit the actual technical components. Don't forget as well the need for a battery that lasts a full shift or longer.

OK, let's say you are the high-level executive at Kenwood responsible for amateur radio. You look at your current product line and see, well, nothing. Your handhelds are gone because of chip availability problems. Your FM mobiles are gone for the same reason. Your HF radios are mostly gone and way behind the SDR technology that Brand I and Brand Y are using. What do you do?
As a business owner myself, I know exactly what I would do. I would take the risk and be the first. Look at the interest in Kenwood on their VP8000. Look at the the IC-7300. It's not that nobody else could come up with that radio. It's that Icom was the first. Now it is very hard to compete with the 7300 because of that. I'm taking the risk on the all band/all mode handheld. If it's successful, I go to the mobile radio. If it's not successful, then I write off amateur radio and get out of that business for good. Without innovative products, that's exactly what's going to happen anyway.

But, at what cost? When JVCK gets around to allowing P25, NXDN, and DMR to be installed on a VP-8000, what will it cost? Would an amateur radio community that snaps up Baofengs like chocolate chips pay that kind of money? I highly doubt it.
Kenwood has already proven that hams are willing to pay $800+ for a HT. Hell, I have seen the 74s go for $1000. The cheapskates who buy $20 Baofengs are always going to buy $20 Baofengs. A $200 radio isn't going to change that. A $1000 radio isn't going to change that. But I would bet that there are plenty of hams who would pay $800-$1000 for an all band/all mode radio.
 

WRQS621

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This radio seems like a jump from FT3D to FT5D. Plus, no one is talking about the new ICOM radio. As far as usb charging, Baofeng has been doing that for years.
 

AK9R

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Kenwood has already proven that hams are willing to pay $800+ for a HT. Hell, I have seen the 74s go for $1000.
Kenwood hasn't proven that at all. The MSRP of the TH-D74 was around $600. That's the only price they determined. I don't think a corporation like JVCK can build a marketing plan around inflated prices asked in eBay ads.

But, your point about being innovative and taking the risk is well taken. The do-everything digital voice radio has been amateur radio's unicorn for years. Maybe it would sell. I'm not convinced.

This radio seems like a jump from FT3D to FT5D. Plus, no one is talking about the new ICOM radio.
Yes, the TH-D75 is an evolutionary advance from the TH-D74 exactly like the step from FT-3D to FT-5D. How many people expressed disappointment in the FT-5D? How many people thought "this is just an FT-3D with a slightly revised case and a few additional features"? Why should Kenwood be treated any differently than Yaesu?

The Icom ID-50 is actually a step backwards. It's an ID-52 with a monochrome display, a few less features, and a USB-C charging port. Other than the predicted lower price (the ID-52 is about $650), I don't see much interest in the ID-50.
 

jwt873

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Love it or not, it's good to see Kenwood introducing a new amateur radio. They're still keeping the ham community in mind.

If I recall correctly, the TH-D74 was selling well, but went out of production due to a chip shortage arising from a fire at a major factory in Japan. I guess the 75 is a re-introduction with a few improvements.

I had a TH-D72 and upgraded to the TH-D74 when it first came out... But the TH-D75 doesn't seem to have enough extra to make a purchase worthwhile.
 

Skypilot007

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I couldn't agree more with the OP. I was very disappointed not to see at least DMR in this new portable. And maybe a new dual bander mobile unit to match. The TM-V71A is getting a little long in the tooth. I'm still wondering why Kenwood, Icom and Yaseu never produced a DMR radio for the amateur market. Like mentioned, they have the technology in their commercial market radios. They all just let the Chinese have the DMR amateur market.
 

MTS2000des

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The V71A, D710GA, and TM-281A are all discontinued leaving just there HF rigs and, if the TH-D75A actually goes into production, JVC Kenwood will have but a sparse offering. Nothing really innovative about the D75A over the D74A, other than USB-C.

This still leaves Icom and Yaesu, The Radio- the two dominant players in the amateur radio equipment scene turning out new models. Yaesu seems to be leading the way with Icom right behind. Both of them offering new innovative products for VHF/UHF. In the last two years, Yaesu gave us the FT-5DR, FTM-200DR, and now FTM-500DR. Icom brought us the ID-52A, IC-905, IC-T10, and IC-V3500.
 

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My 2 cents- the status of ham radio as applied to digital voice use is that it is the electronic equivalent of the Tower of Babel. The best (and never achievable) thing would be for everyone in the ham market to pick ONE digital voice mode and make products for it.
 

AK9R

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I'm still wondering why Kenwood, Icom and Yaseu never produced a DMR radio for the amateur market.
I'm sure they are aware of the cheap, Chinese radios being used on amateur radio DMR.

But, I-K-Y seem to be sticking with making radios for amateur radio that incorporate digital voice modes that were actually designed for amateur radio. The fact that they haven't changed from their chosen DV mode tells me that they are selling enough radios, and making enough profit, to stick to their guns.
 

MTS2000des

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D-Star is the only "open" standard the JARL recognizes, so I doubt Icom or Kenwood will ever do anything else. Yaesu, The Radio, is committed to YSF.

I don't recognize the CCR DMR radios are being "amateur" transceivers as they're clearly just LMR rigs that have a bit changed in a codeplug to make them "amateur like" but they really don't operate as smoothly and cleanly (things like VFO scan, tone scan, etc) the way true blue amateur transceivers do.

Honestly, looking back, JVC Kenwood started winding down the amateur product line 20 years ago. 30 years ago, their catalog was a chock full as Icom and Yaesu with everything from HTs in all bands, satellite rigs, multiple mobile radios...and tons of accessories. Kenwood had things way ahead of their time, like DCL (Digital Channel Link) with FSK automatic ID (sounded like MDC or other CopSounds™) in the mid 1980s on radios like the TR-2600. "Pacesetter in Amateur Radio" they once were.
 

alcahuete

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Kenwood hasn't proven that at all. The MSRP of the TH-D74 was around $600. That's the only price they determined. I don't think a corporation like JVCK can build a marketing plan around inflated prices asked in eBay ads.
They actually have. The MSRP was $649. On sale, the cheapest I ever saw was almost $700. The last place I saw it in stock (Gigaparts) was $750+. No eBay involved. And they sold a bunch at that price. So you're literally looking at a $50-$100 increase for a do-it-all radio. Guaranteed they would get that price all day long, and people would be lined up around the block to pay it.

Yes, the TH-D75 is an evolutionary advance from the TH-D74 exactly like the step from FT-3D to FT-5D. How many people expressed disappointment in the FT-5D? How many people thought "this is just an FT-3D with a slightly revised case and a few additional features"? Why should Kenwood be treated any differently than Yaesu?
Didn't the FT-5D actually add useful features over the 3D? The only thing I'm seeing in the 75 vs. 74 is Dual D-Star Receive, and USB-C charging. Meh.
 

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They actually have. The MSRP was $649. On sale, the cheapest I ever saw was almost $700. The last place I saw it in stock (Gigaparts) was $750+.
...
Didn't the FT-5D actually add useful features over the 3D? The only thing I'm seeing in the 75 vs. 74 is Dual D-Star Receive, and USB-C charging. Meh.

Good Lord. No way I'm dropping $750 on a hand held ham radio like that.
I'll likely never use d*Star. I don't have enough 220 around me to make it worth the cost. So, dual band radio with APRS.

I think I'd rather spend that $750 on a good commercial single band radio and stick with my Garmin InReach mini.


Or, I could buy 30 Baofengs.
 
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