New member with questions

[LuckyPennyGS]

Yeah everyone, I'm posting here just because the "introduction" sections oftentimes don't see a lot of action and I had a few questions I was hoping could be answered. I'm a new member here and not licensed. I have been doing a lot of amateur radio research lately and I have a somewhat unique situation that I'm hoping everyone could assist me with. I'm looking for a handheld radio (or radios) to accomplish some very specific things.

Number 1 priority is having a strictly emergency use only handheld. I own a remote property where I do not receive any cell phone signal at all. My property is approximately 100 acres of wooded land that I use strictly for hunting. I regularly go out to the property by myself to do all kinds of work, plus hunting. I've been thinking that in the event of an emergency, I have no way of contacting anyone for help. I was thinking about a handheld radio, probably a HAM, that I could take with me and carry on my belt just in the event of an emergency to contact someone for me. If I fell out of a tree stand, if I had a hunting injury, if I cut myself badly using a chainsaw, if I had an ATV accident, the list goes on and on. Now from what I have read, it would be acceptable to broadcast on a HAM radio in the event of an emergency. I have looked at RepeaterBook and there is a repeater tower about 5 to 8 miles from my hunting property. My property is located in a very rural and sparely populated county, so I was also thinking in the event of a true emergency, if I could broadcast on the county sheriff's department frequency and county ambulance service frequency, that would be fine to. Please understand, I don't have any interest in becoming a licensed operator. And if I'm in a true emergency situation, even if I got in trouble for broadcasting on a law enforcement or EMS frequency, I would gladly take the punishment if it meant getting someone to help me. I'd just be saying my name, my injury, my location, etc. Again, please understand that this would ONLY be used in the case of a true emergency where I could not get myself back to my truck and drive to the closest house to get a landline phone.

Number 2 priority is having a few handheld radios to use for person to person (simplex I believe is what it's called) communication. I'd like to have something better quality than the blister pack FRS radios that you get just about anywhere. These would be used for myself, my wife, and our 5 year old son to use around that same hunting property because in the spring and summer, we do a lot of hiking and ATV riding on the property. It would be nice to feel like everyone has a radio in case we go separated. Second is that we do a lot of group ATV and UTV riding around the county on gravel roads and trails. So having some radios that I could pass out among the group if we got separated or if someone had a break down and fell behind, we could keep in communication with each other. The terrain is hilly and wooded with very few houses or structures.

So those are my two scenarios that I need help with. If I can accomplish 1 and 2 both with one radio, then great! If not, then I want to take care of priority 1 first and then work on priority 2. At this point, I'm all ears and I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. Thanks in advance!

 

[jonwienke]

And if I'm in a true emergency situation, even if I got in trouble for broadcasting on a law enforcement or EMS frequency, I would gladly take the punishment if it meant getting someone to help me. I'd just be saying my name, my injury, my location, etc. Again, please understand that this would ONLY be used in the case of a true emergency where I could not get myself back to my truck and drive to the closest house to get a landline phone.

Don't waste your time with this idea.

Most LE/EMS use digital trunked systems now, and even if you bought a $1000+ radio that could be programmed to connect to their network, it would get bricked as soon as it did, because it didn't have an authorized ID. Cheaper radios wouldn't be able to even try to talk to the system. And even if they are still using analog frequencies, your call is going to be treated as a hoax until proven otherwise if you pop up on their channel.

Your best bet is to set up a radio link with a neighbor or friend, so you can communicate with someone with a landline in the event of an emergency, that can call 911 on your behalf.

 

[N4DJC]

If life threatening emergency use is your need, look at satellite messengers, they can send an SOS or message with your GPS location anywhere in the world. Several guys I know carry one when in very remote areas.

 

[WB9YBM]

Yeah everyone, I'm posting here just because the "introduction" sections oftentimes don't see a lot of action and I had a few questions I was hoping could be answered. I'm a new member here and not licensed. I have been doing a lot of amateur radio research lately and I have a somewhat unique situation that I'm hoping everyone could assist me with. I'm looking for a handheld radio (or radios) to accomplish some very specific things.

Number 1 priority is having a strictly emergency use only handheld. I own a remote property where I do not receive any cell phone signal at all. My property is approximately 100 acres of wooded land that I use strictly for hunting. I regularly go out to the property by myself to do all kinds of work, plus hunting. I've been thinking that in the event of an emergency, I have no way of contacting anyone for help. I was thinking about a handheld radio, probably a HAM, that I could take with me and carry on my belt just in the event of an emergency to contact someone for me. If I fell out of a tree stand, if I had a hunting injury, if I cut myself badly using a chainsaw, if I had an ATV accident, the list goes on and on. Now from what I have read, it would be acceptable to broadcast on a HAM radio in the event of an emergency. I have looked at RepeaterBook and there is a repeater tower about 5 to 8 miles from my hunting property. My property is located in a very rural and sparely populated county, so I was also thinking in the event of a true emergency, if I could broadcast on the county sheriff's department frequency and county ambulance service frequency, that would be fine to. Please understand, I don't have any interest in becoming a licensed operator. And if I'm in a true emergency situation, even if I got in trouble for broadcasting on a law enforcement or EMS frequency, I would gladly take the punishment if it meant getting someone to help me. I'd just be saying my name, my injury, my location, etc. Again, please understand that this would ONLY be used in the case of a true emergency where I could not get myself back to my truck and drive to the closest house to get a landline phone.

Number 2 priority is having a few handheld radios to use for person to person (simplex I believe is what it's called) communication. I'd like to have something better quality than the blister pack FRS radios that you get just about anywhere. These would be used for myself, my wife, and our 5 year old son to use around that same hunting property because in the spring and summer, we do a lot of hiking and ATV riding on the property. It would be nice to feel like everyone has a radio in case we go separated. Second is that we do a lot of group ATV and UTV riding around the county on gravel roads and trails. So having some radios that I could pass out among the group if we got separated or if someone had a break down and fell behind, we could keep in communication with each other. The terrain is hilly and wooded with very few houses or structures.

So those are my two scenarios that I need help with. If I can accomplish 1 and 2 both with one radio, then great! If not, then I want to take care of priority 1 first and then work on priority 2. At this point, I'm all ears and I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. Thanks in advance!

Hams aren't going to talk to you unless you're licensed because everyone involved gets in trouble. You'd be better off going with a business band radio and buy a second one for a friend.

 

[K4EET]

Hams aren't going to talk to you unless you're licensed because everyone involved gets in trouble. You'd be better off going with a business band radio and buy a second one for a friend.

Now steering LuckyPennyGS, the OP, to purchase a Business Band radio is not a good idea either unless the OP could secure a Business Band license from the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) under Part 90. Albeit somewhat expensive, N4DJC's suggestion of going satellite is viable for the OP to be able to accomplish.

I would like to suggest that the OP and his family seek out a local ham radio club in his area that is offering a Technician Class course (or the OP can give us an idea of where he is in this thread and I'll suggest a few clubs in his area) and obtain a ham license for at least himself and his wife. While it has been done before (I am not sure of the exact age of the youngest ham), the 5 year old may have to wait a few years to be able to pass the exam. But even at that, a five year old should never be left alone in the woods and that is the responsibility of the parents. Granted that this is not a law forum but I suspect, even if accidental, a child at that age left alone in the woods would be grounds for child endangerment.

Sooooooo... To the OP, please give us a rough idea of where you are located so that we can help you out. As was said, the Law Enforcement (LE) and Emergency Medical Systems (EMS) radio systems are likely to be some form of what is known as "digital trunking" and also as was said, even if an illegal radio could gain access to the system, it would likely be treated as a hoax (sorry but usually when somebody shows up on a LE/EMS radio system it is a hoaxster) and the offending radio would be promptly shut down so it can no longer transmit or receive live radio traffic (also known as being bricked). Doing things ILLEGALLY is NOT the way to approach an emergency situation contrary to what you might believe. Your best bet is for you and your wife to get Technician Class ham licenses and transmit legally on those repeaters you found. WB9YBM is correct in saying that hams could get in trouble if they talked to you as an unlicensed operator. The penalty could be as steep as losing their ham license and a $10,000 fine even in an emergency situation so your "plea for help" will most likely fall on deaf ears. It is not worth the risk and again, many such incidents turn out to be a hoax.

OP, it is my hope that you will do the right thing...

Dave

 

[LuckyPennyGS]

I guess I didn't make it clear. I have NO interest in talking with any HAM operators. I don't care if they don't answer if I had to make an emergency transmission as long as they would relay my information to the county sheriff's department. My priority 1 is a means of strictly EMERGENCY ONLY communications in the event that I get injured to the point where I can't get myself back to my truck. Hopefully this will never happen to me and I will never need to ever make a radio transmission. That being said, in the county where my property is located, I can't imagine anyone ignoring a radio transmission asking for emergency help. The county is very sparsely populated, very rural, and very low economic status. My guess is they've never had a radio hoax in 50 years, probably never altogether. So I find it very hard to believe that "hoax" would be the first thing that someone would think when they heard an emergency transmission. Most of the people in the county you could classify as "good old boys". As for the county sheriff's department being on high end radios, I highly doubt that also. The sheriff's department only has 6 deputies for the whole county. I highly doubt the department would have the operating budget for expensive radios. I don't even think the whole county has 911 service even. Only a couple cities in the county have 911 service. Property taxes each year for my 100 acres only costs me $70. $70 a year for property taxes on 100 acres!

My property is located in Bollinger County, MO. I'm sure more experienced people can look up the frequencies and things for that county and could tell whether they have trunking radios or just regular analog radios. I suspect the latter.

 

[KevinC]

I would get a PLB...

ResQLink™ - ACR ARTEX

The original resqlink from ACR when launched was one of the most compact personal locator beacons available. Now replaced by the ResQLink 400.

www.acrartex.com

No legal gray areas about transmitting where you shouldn't and it gives your exact location (as opposed to trying to tell people who are wondering who the heck you are where you are on your 100 acres).

It may not be as cool as talking to law enforcement on a radio but it's much more practical in my opinion.

 

[jonwienke]

Bollinger county sheriff has a talkgroup on moswin, the Missouri statewide digital system. Some analog frequencies are listed, but marked as deprecated. So calling on an analog radio won't work. They're digital.

 

[LuckyPennyGS]

Bollinger county sheriff has a talkgroup on moswin, the Missouri statewide digital system. Some analog frequencies are listed, but marked as deprecated. So calling on an analog radio won't work. They're digital.

Wow, that definitely surprises me! Thanks for letting me know.

 

[LuckyPennyGS]

I would get a PLB...

ResQLink™ - ACR ARTEX

The original resqlink from ACR when launched was one of the most compact personal locator beacons available. Now replaced by the ResQLink 400.

www.acrartex.com

No legal gray areas about transmitting where you shouldn't and it gives your exact location (as opposed to trying to tell people who are wondering who the heck you are where you are on your 100 acres).

It may not be as cool as talking to law enforcement on a radio but it's much more practical in my opinion.

I looked at some of those locator beacons initially. The ones I looked at seemed a little pricey and they only had a 5 year battery life then you have to send the unit back to the manufacturer to have the battery replaced and I imagine that wouldn’t be cheap.

 

[KevinC]

I looked at some of those locator beacons initially. The ones I looked at seemed a little pricey and they only had a 5 year battery life then you have to send the unit back to the manufacturer to have the battery replaced and I imagine that wouldn’t be cheap.

I guess you need to decide how much your well being is worth then.

 

[LuckyPennyGS]

I guess since the gentleman informed me that my county sheriff's department doesn't use analog radios, that changes things slightly. My next question is whether someone listening on the county repeater would be willing to answer me or at least relay my information to EMS or law enforcement. Maybe I could be completely wrong, but I just can't see someone ignoring an emergency transmission. I've looked initially and you can get a pretty good handheld amateur radio for about half the cost of one of those PLBs and I wouldn't have to worry about sending the unit back every 5 years to have the battery replaced. But if people seriously doubt that anyone would answer a distress transmission on a local repeater, then I guess PLB is my only option.

 

[cmjonesinc]

A PLB really isn't even that expensive when you consider what it does. I wouldnt 'trust my life' with a radio that didn't cost at least that much money. Plus with a radio you need to know what frequency to use and to hope you can get out to a repeater and that someone is even listening. A PLB, just activate it and help is coming. Some people here think just having a radio is going to save their life.

 

[LuckyPennyGS]

A PLB really isn't even that expensive when you consider what it does. I wouldnt 'trust my life' with a radio that didn't cost at least that much money. Plus with a radio you need to know what frequency to use and to hope you can get out to a repeater and that someone is even listening. A PLB, just activate it and help is coming. Some people here think just having a radio is going to save their life.

I guess I was thinking $150 for a handheld radio that is rechargeable would be better than spending $350 for a PLB plus however much to get a new battery every 5 years. This thought was predicated on the ability to transmit to more than one entity, which I figured would highly increase the ability that someone would hear the transmission. But now that the county sheriff's department is not using analog radios, that is definitely one less entity available to hear my transmission.

Here is the list of frequencies for my county: Bollinger County, Missouri (MO) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

 

[cmjonesinc]

When your PLB is activated the people at the other end have the means to contact all those other entities. Imagine you get hurt and can only attempt to contact one agency. They likely will assume it's a hoax or not even hear you at all. You activate a PLB and they dispatch all those resources to you. No need for any other intervention. So if you were to become unconscious or disoriented you don't have to worry. Plus there is some required maintenance with radios as well. I replace the batteries on my Motorola's every 2-3 years and they aren't cheap either.

 

[N8IAA]

I guess I was thinking $150 for a handheld radio that is rechargeable would be better than spending $350 for a PLB plus however much to get a new battery every 5 years. This thought was predicated on the ability to transmit to more than one entity, which I figured would highly increase the ability that someone would hear the transmission. But now that the county sheriff's department is not using analog radios, that is definitely one less entity available to hear my transmission.

Here is the list of frequencies for my county: Bollinger County, Missouri (MO) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

I understand what you think you can do in an emergency. But, since your county not only uses conventional frequencies and the MOSWIN system, you are very unlikely to reach one of the public service repeaters with a handheld radio. Especially if you are in a heavily wooded area.

Also, understand that your county uses an encrypted digital format for LE. How do you think they will be able to respond?? As cmjonesinc posted, they will think hoax, not emergency.

You're trying to find a cheap method for contacting help if/when you have an emergency. It's not going to happen. The EPIRB that was mentioned is one form of communications. A satellite phone would be another. Remember, what is your life worth???

 

[ko6jw_2]

This type of question comes up frequently in these forums. The practicalities and legalities have been covered by others. The common thread in this type of post is that it's all about ME. I want to get help in an emergency. I don't care about licensing or regulations. However, the main point is that radio use in an emergency is not about you. It is about the community. People help each other. With ham radio it is all about making contacts and getting to know other operators, joining ARES or CERT, getting proper training and being prepared. It is not about me first me only. By the way it's "ham" not HAM. It's not an acronym.

 

[LuckyPennyGS]

Ok, let's move on to my second priority of communication. Person to person handheld radios for the purposes described in my first post.

Someone had recommended dedicated and type certified (I know that is a big deal to people) MURS radios to me. They said that VHF radios would work better in the conditions that I described, being rural and wooded. Someone else had recommended GMRS radios to me. I fully know about the GMRS license requirement and I would be willing to pay the fee for the GMRS license if that was a better option for my intended purposes.

 

[LuckyPennyGS]

This type of question comes up frequently in these forums. The practicalities and legalities have been covered by others. The common thread in this type of post is that it's all about ME. I want to get help in an emergency. I don't care about licensing or regulations. However, the main point is that radio use in an emergency is not about you. It is about the community. People help each other. With ham radio it is all about making contacts and getting to know other operators, joining ARES or CERT, getting proper training and being prepared. It is not about me first me only. By the way it's "ham" not HAM. It's not an acronym.

This is purely why I'm not interested in becoming licensed. From what I've seen, a lot of people are quick to point out they know more than you, that you don't know what you're talking about, and they come across rather condescending. Especially to someone who already admitted they are trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. I've been reading lots of various threads on various forums and I see the same attitudes elsewhere.

And yes, if you see a lot of threads about emergency communications from people on this forum, it's certainly understandable that it's all about ME. If you're hurt and need help, absolutely you're going to be selfish and at that time only care about yourself. In a true emergency, YES it is all about you. Maybe a better response would be "Yes, emergency communication contacts are possible, but let me tell you about all the other great things that come along with being a licensed operator. Let me be a mentor and show you how awesome being a part of this group is." I'm a licensed gun dealer, I've been in the business of buying, selling, and shooting guns for my entire life. I certainly know more about guns than a vast majority of people. But when someone comes to me with some questions and I can clearly see that they're new and looking for information, I don't puff up my chest and tell them their ideas are wrong or selfish or talk condescendingly toward them. Those are the gun shops that new people don't want to go to. Those are the shops where only the old timers go so they don't have to interact with the new gun owners or the "interested in gun" owners go. If you want your area, business, or hobby to grow and thrive, the new people are who should be welcomed the most.

 

[sparklehorse]

I do a lot of backpacking and this thing is always with me:

Amazon.com: Spot 3 Satellite GPS Messenger - Orange: Gateway

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It uses easily replaceable AAA batteries which last a long time. You need a subscription which is about $150 a year, but I've had mine for 10 years now and have been very happy with it. It's small, lightweight and rugged. I send an "I'm OK" message to my wife every evening while I'm in the backcountry. That's probably been 50 or 60 times now and it has never failed to get the message through along with my location coordinates. I have great faith that it would work in an emergency as long as I'm not at the bottom of a narrow slot canyon or something where the signal might be blocked.

Another option is Garmin makes a satellite text messenger device (used to be made by Delorme). I've used that too. It also requires a subscription, but it provides two-way communication for a fraction of what a Sat Phone would cost.
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