New News For Toronto Project 25

[Oliner67]

Hi everyone, I had the opportunity to speak with a worker for the Toronto Police's Information Technology Unit today. The two person unit showed up in a marked police vehicle with the marker "ITU04." They were setting up the handheld units for the P25 system at the marine police station down on Queen's Quay.

Here is exactly what the radio technician told me:

- Toronto's Project 25 System will be up and running "in about a year"
- It will be entirely digitally encrypted and no consumer scanners will be able to trunk track it

I was incredibly disappointed to hear this, as I'm sure many of you are. Let's hope he is wrong, but in case that he isn't, what can we do?

 

[bigcam406]

absolutely nothing.time to get a new hobby me thinks....lol.enjoy it while we can,soon,it will be gone unfortunately.

 

[exkalibur]

This isn't really "new" news - we've known for a few years they'll be digitally encrypted. EMS will be as well. The jury is still out re Fire.

 

[SCPD]

This isn't really "new" news - we've known for a few years they'll be digitally encrypted. EMS will be as well. The jury is still out re Fire.

I am pretty sure Fire will be encrypted as well as utilities, TTC and all other users who join the system just like Hamilton, what I have heard is Fire needs to be convinced on the issue of audio quality and safety. Leaving any user in the clear would defeat the purpose of encrypting any one user.

Bad for scanner hobbyists, really bad for news reporters and the public's ability to know what's going on but the reality is that monitoring communications is coming to an end. I suspect users who are digital now will upgrade to encryption in a year or less once they are convinced there are no audio issues and this is pretty much the end of scanning no different that the monitoring of cell phones years ago, they use to be analog and you could listen and one by one they went to a non monitorable digital format.

All the crime news will be off the news and that will be of great relief to our politicians and police brass who would rather not have shootings and murders and other crime reported in the paper and on TV.

For the hobbyist yes it's time to start looking around for something else that you like.

 

[bigcam406]

what gets me is that a much larger city such as Los Angeles is digital and not encrypted,yet the whole movement in the GTA is going silent.alot more crime and murders down there,so whats to hide up here?i wonder what Kevin Frankish from Breakfast Television is going to do,apparently he's a scanner junkie also.

 

[VE3RADIO]

what gets me is that a much larger city such as Los Angeles is digital and not encrypted,yet the whole movement in the GTA is going silent.alot more crime and murders down there,so whats to hide up here?i wonder what Kevin Frankish from Breakfast Television is going to do,apparently he's a scanner junkie also.

I have heard that before too..

 

[mciupa]

 

[DMRAPX]

New TPS P-25 project

This is a highly debated topic as to what format they will end up using.e.g Divisional going just digital and major crime etc.. Encrypted.
There are so many people that have talked to someone or who knows someone that told them how the new P-25 will end up working.
The only sure way is a wait and see.

Max

 

[EJB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9360; en) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0.0.353 Mobile Safari/534.11+)

I guess some of you guys will be forced to spend time with your wives.

 

[georgesharpe]

I agree, just wait & see. Halton, being more prgressive (and less paranoid) kept Fire/Transit/Public works in the clear, but with Ford in the T.O. Mayor's chair, I'm sure he's sold on not letting the public know too much, media included.

 

[EJB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9360; en) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0.0.353 Mobile Safari/534.11+)

I don't the current administration is in any way responsible for a new system that isn't scannable, this was been going on since Miller was mayor.

Its rare that I would ever stand up for Ford or his administration so cherish it guys, normally I think that right wingers and their philosphies are deranged and insane.

 

[VE3RADIO]

I agree, just wait & see. Halton, being more prgressive (and less paranoid) kept Fire/Transit/Public works in the clear, but with Ford in the T.O. Mayor's chair, I'm sure he's sold on not letting the public know too much, media included.

If Rob Ford had his way the Police and Fire would be using string attached to Styrofoam cups or a megaphone to communicate.

 

[East_Algoma]

Ive read about the big switch for yrs now....I think before the switch from that tone of the 107.2 I think.,.,,.the annoying NOISE they use to put out...I hard then it was going THAT way...never did...cost alone for a PD that size....Im sure only drugs , investigative , and TG among those lines would be ENC - the rest ( for costing reasons ) Id say would be open. NYCPD does the same....

 

[exkalibur]

These days, the cost to go fully encrypted is trivial. Plus if they buy "in bulk" so to speak, they'll get an even better deal on the price. The cost for multi-key P25 encryption is about $580 per radio. Over the course of say 15 years, that's less than $40/year/radio. I would imagine if Toronto placed an order for 5,000 radios with encryption, they'd get that cost down to FAR less.

In fact, depending on the model of radio chosen, encryption could be free. EF Johnson includes digital encryption for /free/ in their public safety radios.

 

[mikewazowski]

You also have to consider the source.

He said that the system will not be trackable. So far I've never seen a P25 system that's not trackable. The audio might be encrypted but the system will still be trackable.

 

[bigcam406]

if its encrypted,why bother tracking it? another thing im wondering,we have Toronto,Durham,Halton all going encrypted soon(Halton already there).when is York and Peel switching?just wondering.thx

 

[SCPD]

if its encrypted,why bother tracking it? another thing im wondering,we have Toronto,Durham,Halton all going encrypted soon(Halton already there).when is York and Peel switching?just wondering.thx

Peel is supposed to go this fall as they are like Toronto in the process of changing out the user gear and most of the system although operating in analog now is P25 ready, York region probably in a year or so.

Keep in mind each region will be slightly different, Halton fire departments all have encrypted radios but they are operating in the clear with the exception of a police fire common channel, others like Hamilton chose 100% encryption for all users so there may still be a few things for the hobbyists to listen to although at the end of the day what isn't going P25 is going MotoTRBO or Nexedge. Analog radio communications is going the way of analog cellular phones.

 

[exkalibur]

Analog radio communications is going the way of analog cellular phones.

Thanks to legislation that is yet to be enacted, everything will eventually have to make the switch.

 

[Forts]

You guys are just catching up with the rest of us... London Police went encrypted almost 20 years ago :roll:

 

[EJB]

Thanks to legislation that is yet to be enacted, everything will eventually have to make the switch.

There is actual legislation that says that that all radio communications has to be unscannable? Is this in regard to emergency services lile police, fire, EMS etc.

Is this Canada wide or a provincial initiative?

I wonder what will this site will look like when this goes down? We are only a tiny part of this community here in Canada but without much to scan...?