"NEW" NYC Comms System

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davidd2957

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Came across this interesting article,
"New York City officials are quietly developing a new radio system that could
prevent a repeat of the fatal miscommunications that contributed to the
deaths of 343 firefighters, dozens of police officers, and thousands of civilians
during the World Trade Center attacks.
http://www.nysun.com/article/30757

David D.
 

lschmidt

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How could a radio system have kept the towers from collapsing? As that is what caused so many fatalities for both Public Safety personnel and civilians. As fast as things happened on that day the police and firefighters just did not have enough time to evacuate everybody and there is no radio system in existance today that could have changed that.
 
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elk2370bruce

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The point of the article is that the inability of responders to communicate effectively AFTER the towers collapsed is the need for Channel 16 and the 9-11 Commission's emphasis on expanded "interoperability". It has absolutely nothing to do with preventing the crashes and subsequent collapse of both towers. Were we reading the same article?
 

Al42

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If you listen to the FDNY tapes you'll realize that part of the problem is that human beings have to do the communicating. Not that interop wouldn't have helped, but FDNY is interoperable with FDNY, and they had plenty of comms problems anyway. Try reporting something when you're in sheer panic mode - 15 years on the job falls away like water and you start to gibber. And no radio is going to help that.
 

michaelsbus

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Yeah, its UHF-TV channel 16 being reused. Funny thing is there's a ch16 tv station near the area they'll have to work around. FCC only mandates the stations in the 700MHz band vacate. Check this site:

http://nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/home/home.shtml

They plan to set up yet another UHF trunking system, transition many city agencies onto it and expect it to function better than what they had before. 24 freqs means that the 24th person to key up their radio doesn't get through. Now contemplate how many units were on-scene and on the way, then throw in all the other non-emergency agencies that will be on the same system...

I, too, listened to some of those tapes. Very chilling. Lots of good men and women doing a basic floor-by-floor, room-by-room search and rescue operation when ultimate doom leered down from above. Even the command post not immune. And three months earlier I would have gone down, too.

Some well-equipped and well-staffed communication trucks at the command post would probably be just as good (if not better) than the Channel 16 Project.
 
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DaveNF2G

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Practically every article and speech that I've seen about "interoperability" is vendor-driven and insists upon technological solutions to a human problem.

ICS would solve most of these allegedly "interoperability-related" problems. A unified command post, properly trained field personnel, and technically savvy dispatchers are the solution, not newer and more complex gadgets.

The discussion always leaves out the human component of a communications system.
 

n2nov

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My Letter to The NY Sun Editor

Subject: New Channel 16? You Guys Need More Info
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 00:42:15 -0400
From: "Charles J. Hargrove" <n2nov@n2nov.net>
To: editor@nysun.com

I was sent a link to Jill Gardiner's article on the "new" radio system called
Channel 16. This has been something in conversations since the mid-1990's
and not a post-9/11 idea with recent FCC approval.

Channel 16 refers to the frequency band of 482-488Mhz which makes up the
range for UHF television channel 16. In large metropolitan areas since 1980,
the FCC has allowed use of UHF TV channels 14-20 (470-512Mhz) as a supplement
for various land/mobile services like police, fire, ems, taxis, road crews
and various businesses. Of course, a local UHF television broadcaster on a
particular channel would negate the use of those frequencies in a locale.

The NYPD was already shifting from VHF (151-160Mhz) channels to the UHF
channels (470-480Mhz) in the early 1980's. The increased need for NYPD
dispatch channels was recognized by the early 1990's and some of the "new"
channel 16 frequencies were used starting in 1997. Talks were already
underway prior to the Y2K planning to have a trunked radio system on some of
these frequencies to take the load off of the DOITT 800 trunked system by
some of the more critical agencies. This would allow these agency members to
carry only one radio for UHF instead of a separate radio for VHF, UHF and the
800Mhz systems. This also means that the plans were in the works for FDNY to
abandon their current VHF channels and move up to UHF. Motorola even sold
FDNY on the idea of a UHF digital radio, which failed miserably in March 2001.
These were switched back to analog on the same frequencies and were being
tested by EMS during the summer of 2001. The success of the tests would have
lead to them being reissued to FDNY that October. Unfortunately, 9/11
happened first.

It's sad to see that the money trail and frightened egos of politicians or
bureaucrats determine what we do to support our first responders need for
proper communications. Many expensive and still fragile systems are rolled
out around the nation in a post-9/11 world. We still see them failing
when they are stressed by Mother Nature or ill formed communications plans.
More seems to be entrusted to expensive hardware and software than what
could be simply achieved by proper application of wetware (human gray matter).
 

maalox

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sorry wrong page delete please
 
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