New Paulding County System Digital?

[SCPD]

Paulding County Radio System Selection

Bash Paulding County all you want for selecting a "proprietary system", not selecting a P25 System, not remaining VHF and or not expanding the Cobb County 800 MHz Astro Digital Radio System into their County, but once the system is in officials and the users will know if they met one of the main goals of the RFP which was to purchase and install a radio system that provides the best possible portable radio coverage within their budgetary constraints that would not be a burden on the taxpayers up front or reoccurring annually. I know for a fact that Paulding County officials made a valiant effort to prepare an open ended RFPs for a radio system to give them the ability to look at several different solutions and the RFP didn't go out just once, but twice. They had a difficult time getting vendors to submit proposals, so you can't blame Paulding County for this. I understand they investigated building out their own 700/800 MHz P25 Trunked Radio System, but the up front costs were somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 million with annual reoccurring costs estimated at well over $250,000 per year and this system only provided portable radio coverage in a little over 3/4ths of the county. This meant they would have more dead spots in a multi-million dollar 700/800 MHz System than they do on their existing VHF Systems. They also investigated expanding the Cobb County 800 MHz Astro Digital System into their county, but here too the annual up front costs were outrageous and annual reoccuring costs were ridiculous, plus they were looking at having to pay Cobb County an annual fee per radio to be on the system and again it didn't provide portable radio coverage throughout the county. I think they were impressed with Kenwood Nexedge, but were told there just wasn't enough VHF frequencies available to put with their existing VHF frequencies to build out a multi-site Nexedge TRS. I'm fairly sure they were told VHF P25 trunked simulcast system wasn't an option either because there were not enough frequencies available and frequency splits to make the system work properly just were not there.

I commend the officials in Paulding County for not taking the easy way out by issuing a sole source purchase order to a vendor to purchase a $12 to $20 million dollar radio system in the name of interoperability. I know what they did took a lot of hard work and deliberation, but at the end of the day when they have:

1. a $2.6 million dollar proprietary radio system that provides them with the portable radio coverage they desire instead of a $15 million dollar system that only covers 3/4ths of the county, and;
2. they can purchase proprietary radios at less than $1,000 a piece instead of non-proprietary radios at $2,000 or more a piece, and;
3. they are not spending $250,000 or more per year to maintain the system infrastructure and subscriber radios, and;
4. they have two-way radio voice interoperability on demand and in real time with members of other departments using different radio systems.

I think they have done an excellent job at selecting and installing a radio system by not only looking out for the safety and well being of the first responders and general public, but the overall taxpayer.

Just my two cents....

 

[MTS2000des]

What about interoperability? Choosing the UHF band presents an obstacle that will hinder them from having end-to-end interoperability, requiring cumbersome patches, crossband, or maintaining their existing radio system, which means paying to narrowband it as well (which has to be done per the upcoming mandate).

I find it difficult to believe that in the metro Atlanta area, where everyone except a few cities have all but abandoned their legacy VHF systems, they could not get the needed pairs for 3-5 channels on narrowband VHF to build out a VHF NexEDGE or MotoTRBO system.

As a user of their existing system pointed out, they don't seem to have coverage problems with their existing wideband VHF analog system, some poor performing subscriber radios aside, their issue is channel capacity. LTR trunking could solve this problem with additional 3-5 additional VHF channels, and this could have been accomplished for about the same money or less to go UHF.

At the end of the day, they are buying a system which will isolate them from those around them from their day to day operations, and will require responders to have at least two radios in all their vehicles and portables if they want to have end to end interoperability with nearby agencies such as Douglas, Cherokee, Bartow, GSP, and DNR- or hand out radios to all of them.

I don't think this is as great a bargain from the interoperability standpoint taking all this into consideration- unless Motorola introduces a dual band MotoTRBO subscriber radio, or releases a flash for the APX series (and that won't come cheap) to support DMR/TRBO.

 

[SCPD]

Paulding County Radio System Selection

There are a lot of interoperability solutions already in place in Paulding County, such as MotoBridge (aka GIN) in their 9-1-1 Center, an ACU-1000 in their mobile command vehicle (MCV), a portable ACU-1000 with just as many capablilities as the one mounted in the MCV, plus they have two or three cross band repeaters with possible plans to add a few more. I think they looked at the number of times on an annual basis where they have used or needed interoperability with agencies in the adjacent counties and it didn't justify spending $8 to $10 million more for a system along with cost of the mobiles portables and control stations necessary to allow interoperabilty. I feel confident with MotorBridge, their ACU-1000s and strategic placement of mobile mounted cross band repeaters will provide them with the interoperability they need.

The problem they have found is when they narrow banded a couple of their existing VHF channels they lost significant coverage in areas where they had coverage using wide band. The coverage loss by narrowbanding was going to require them to build out a minimum of four to five tower sites for a VHF Trunked System. This meant if they were to remain VHF and doing something other than P25 simulcast (i.e. MotoTRBO, NEXEDGE, etc.) and maintain the coverage and meet the loading requirement they felt they needed for current and future operations it would require them to have a total of 20 VHF frequency pairs. So as you can see adding three or five pair to what they already have just wasn't going to be enough. Now if they had joined forces with Bartow, Douglas, Gordon and Polk counties they probably could have gotten enough frequency pairs and frequency splits needed to make up one heck of a regional VHF P25 simulcast system, but trying to get all of the right players to the table on short notice is like herding about 25-30 cats.

I've heard rumor that Motorola is considering putting MotoTRBO technology in the APX radio to give a user multiple bands (i.e. VHF/700/800 MHz, UHF/700/800 MHz, VHF/UHF) and multiple technologies (i.e. conventional, MotoTRBO and P25) in one radio, but I'm sure one portable radio with all of this will cost $7000+ per radio. Sounds great, but here again how can one agency justify spending $7000 per portable radio just to have a feature/function that is probably not used but six or eight times a year. Again, this is just a rumor and I do not know if Motorola is planning to do this, but can tell you I was in a meeting where a couple of their customers requested this capability be added.

I know in many people's eyes what they have decided to do may not be a bargain from an interoperabiltiy stand point, but one has to realize with today's economy every agency must take care of the home territory first then look at how to help others later. Other counties throughout Georgia have switched to MotoTRBO or NEXEDGE in VHF and UHF to improve their radio system coverage without breaking the bank and they have implemented some good and different interoperability solutions to allow various users to communicate when they need too. I think the folks within Paulding County government will find one or more solutions to address the interoperability issue and will do it in a cost effective and efficient manner.

Guess we will just have to wait and see...

 

[MTS2000des]

I'm surprised to hear about the coverage loss at narrowband, was this analog 12.5KHz or 12.5KHz digital? I my tests for one Cobb county agency who requested assistance during an investigative phase to replace their analog UHF system, we installed a NexEDGE repeater setup for dual mode (would activate on both wideband and 12.5KHz digital), the 12.5KHz digital outperformed EVERY place we went throughout the county in our drive tests. There were many places where the analog audio was unusable, yet switching to digital 12.5 resulted in a clear, reliable voice copy.

I certainly understand the issues about budgets. In Cobb county we chose to spend an insane amount on our digital system, but we're too far along to change horses. As a result, we've had to cut many services including public safety and as such, citizens suffer due to these decisions. I made my voice heard in 2005 about replacing what was then a fully functional and adequate radio system that needed slight improvements, but words fell on deaf ears and was even given some outright lies about "Federal mandates requiring digital switch" and "cellular 911 call location" requiring digital radios. The amount of misinformation and disinformation surrounding the industry is enough to fill a blog (and it does: Daryl Jones' Weblog).

I'm just stuck on the fact that agencies are being forced to spend money that in many cases, solves a problem that doesn't exist. When, as others who are on the front lines have pointed out, more pressing issues like training and staffing call for more urgent attention and funding than new digital radios.

 

[SCPD]

Paulding County System

They narrowbanded one or two of their analog channels to 12.5 kHz and noticed the coverage loss. I know if they had changed to 12.5 kHz digital then they probably would have gained some coverage, but I think the coverage loss got them gun shy. I tried Kenwood NEXEDGE on a VHF 12.5 kHz spaced single site repeater channel about a year ago and I was totally impressed. We had it configured where users could switch back and forth between analog 12.5 kHz and digital 12.5 kHz to compare coverage and the digital covered extremely well in areas where the analog side wouldn't even key up the repeater more less make a scratchy sound come it. I was totally impressed.

Speaking of outright lies, misunderstandings, misconceptions, etc. regarding federal mandates and other requirements, I've heard three recently that make me really mad and I will list these below so you and others so keep your ears open for these:

1. The FCC has mandated that all radio systems operating in the 800 MHz spectrum must switch to narrowband by January 2017 (I think the person that told me this was talking about 6.25 kHz spacing);

2. The FCC has mandated that all radio systems operating in the 800 MHz spectrum must switch to digital emissions by February 2017;

3. The ISO will be taking away points from fire department scores to count toward reducing the ISO rating for those agencies who are not using a P25 radio systems.

Now, that last one makes me really mad because ISO should not be concerned with what type of radio system technology a fire department uses. They just need to be concerned with whether or not the system is reliable, has sufficient back up and has proper in-building radio coverage thoroughout the jurisdiction being served. If anything the ISO should probably be taking points away from those agencies who have switched to a P25 System and no longer have coverage in buildings where firefighters had coverage on an analog system.

Just my opinion.

 

[MTS2000des]

your NXDN test mimics ours. I am duly impressed by the audio quality and performance, not to mention the low cost. In some cases, it's actually more affordable to buy the NX subscriber radios than mid-tier analog only radios (like TK-2180's) even if one doesn't use them in the digital domain.

Lies and distortions are rampant, including the imaginary mandates you mentioned, the one that really frosted my behind was "the Federal government is requiring all public safety radio switch to digital radios, as the existing ones will no longer work in January 2013"

What we really need installed in metro areas, and should be required in all sales of these proprietary radio systems, are multiband ITAC linked repeaters.

So no matter what band (VHF/UHF/700/800MHz) you are on, you have common mutual aid repeaters linked full time. For example, link the V-TAC, U-TAC and 8-TAC together. The cost of doing this should not be that high, as there are existing 800 mutual aid repeaters in most cities. Adding VHF and UHF ones would make for a true interoperable solution and fallback failsafe radio system.

I know, I know, that herding cats issue again...

 

[SCPD]

I concur with you regarding a permanent cross patching of VTACs to UTACs to 8TACs in the larger cities within our State like Albany, Augusta, Columbus, Macon, Savannah and the entire nine county metro Atlanta area to foster mutual aid communications. However, one major problem with this is some of the radio system managers throughout our State have it in their minds that analog conventional radio is antiquated and we should not rely on a system like this when we have the high tech 800 MHz, multi-channel, multi-site digital trunked radio systems to use. Some of these managers want to try to put every user from every agency on each of the systems and not use the conventional mutual aid systems. I feel since the FCC gave us the conventional mutual aid channels we should put them to use and do it as often as possible, not only to ensure first responders know were these are in their radios and how to use them, but to make sure we get to keep them. Congress, the FCC and other federal agencies seem to be in the take back mode lately and I would hate to see them reallocate the 8TAC channels for something else and the same goes for VTACs and UTACs.

 

[JRayfield]

There are more and more cases coming to light, of a serious loss of range when moving from wideband to narrowband analog. Some systems have lost as much as 25% or more of their coverage. The 'engineering math' shows this will happen and both the engineering and the 'real world cases' indicate that there will likely be a loss of 3db when moving from wideband to narrowband analog.

This is one of the primary reasons why so many agencies are moving to digital systems (such as MOTOTRBO) instead of staying with analog (narrowband). With MOTOTRBO, there is an increase of around 6db to as much as 8db, over narrowband analog. This has been born out by the 'engineering math' as well as 'on the air' testing.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

I'm surprised to hear about the coverage loss at narrowband, was this analog 12.5KHz or 12.5KHz digital? I my tests for one Cobb county agency who requested assistance during an investigative phase to replace their analog UHF system, we installed a NexEDGE repeater setup for dual mode (would activate on both wideband and 12.5KHz digital), the 12.5KHz digital outperformed EVERY place we went throughout the county in our drive tests. There were many places where the analog audio was unusable, yet switching to digital 12.5 resulted in a clear, reliable voice copy.

I certainly understand the issues about budgets. In Cobb county we chose to spend an insane amount on our digital system, but we're too far along to change horses. As a result, we've had to cut many services including public safety and as such, citizens suffer due to these decisions. I made my voice heard in 2005 about replacing what was then a fully functional and adequate radio system that needed slight improvements, but words fell on deaf ears and was even given some outright lies about "Federal mandates requiring digital switch" and "cellular 911 call location" requiring digital radios. The amount of misinformation and disinformation surrounding the industry is enough to fill a blog (and it does: Daryl Jones' Weblog).

I'm just stuck on the fact that agencies are being forced to spend money that in many cases, solves a problem that doesn't exist. When, as others who are on the front lines have pointed out, more pressing issues like training and staffing call for more urgent attention and funding than new digital radios.