New Pro106 unable to receive Garland PD/FD

Status
Not open for further replies.

gbeauw

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
4
Location
Richardson, TX
I've double checked the TSYS and TGRP objects for the Garland PD/FD and everything looks fine when compared them to the current Radio Reference DB for Garland, TX but I still never hear anything but static. I get the "T" symbol indicating I'm getting the control channel(s) but when one of the Talkgroups comes up it is just static.

My understanding is that for Mot800/900 Type II systems all I need to enter as FREQS in the TSYS object are the four control frequencies (which is what came up when I loaded the VS9 Folder into main memory). I also understand that I don't have to mess with the Fleet Map for a Type-II system. (I've confirmed that the TSYS is set for Type-II.) Is that correct?

Finally, I live in East Richardson so I would guess signal strength isn't a problem.

Anyone have any ideas on how to proceed to debug this problem? Unfortunately, I don't have acr500 software or a programming cable yet so I'm doing all this by hand and can't send you any files from a dump of my Pro106.
 

sladymon

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
1
same problem with pro164

I have the same problem with a pro-164. Including the flashing T and then static and silence.

I went to RS and talked to their 'expert' and he said it was NOT POSSIBLE to monitor garland as a trunked system!, that you just programmed all the published control freqs and set them to "FM" and let it scan sequentially.

I am in North Garland, and it is NOT a reception problem.

I have noticed the garland system transmit 'funky' talkgroup IDs that change (?), but I suspect the real problem as that the scanner needs a custom table to figure out the intended VC because garland does not use a standard freq offset table. This IS an option in my 164 BUT IT IS NOT IN THE BLOODY MANUAL!

This is unacceptable, however I find no other report of the same problem anywhere else on the web which seems puzzling to me.

On my 164, I program the freqs, set the type to "MO" but set the bank to "not trunked", and find the control channel and lock it out. The scanner get the talkgroup ID from the subaudible data whenever the repeater rebroadcasts. You still cant lock out certain talk groups or assign text tags, but I am still working on that.

Sam

PS For even more fun, go to the FCC database and find the VC freqs used by the cars/vehicles to broadcast to the repeater tower, they are seperate from the published control channel freqs that are used to repeat on. Set them to FM. Put them in the same bank as the control freqs set to "MO". Put these VC before AND after the control channels so that it will pick up the vehicle transmission before it gets repeated. Then you can tell if the officer/transmitter is 'nearby'.....
 

redhelmet13

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
459
Location
4 nm se KNFW
You folks realize Garland rebanded and is using a custom bandplan? Not sure if you have entered the correct bandplan for them. I guess I had better take a look in the database to see if that information is there... Good luck.
 

hiegtx

Mentor
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
8,045
Location
Dallas, TX
I've double checked the TSYS and TGRP objects for the Garland PD/FD and everything looks fine when compared them to the current Radio Reference DB for Garland, TX but I still never hear anything but static. I get the "T" symbol indicating I'm getting the control channel(s) but when one of the Talkgroups comes up it is just static.

My understanding is that for Mot800/900 Type II systems all I need to enter as FREQS in the TSYS object are the four control frequencies (which is what came up when I loaded the VS9 Folder into main memory). I also understand that I don't have to mess with the Fleet Map for a Type-II system. (I've confirmed that the TSYS is set for Type-II.) Is that correct?

Finally, I live in East Richardson so I would guess signal strength isn't a problem.

Anyone have any ideas on how to proceed to debug this problem? Unfortunately, I don't have acr500 software or a programming cable yet so I'm doing all this by hand and can't send you any files from a dump of my Pro106.
gbeauw
The Pro-106 will monitor the Garland system quite easily. I'm in Oak Cliff, using a PSR-500 (same scanner, electronically, just has a GRE label instead of a Radio Shack one), along with several Uniden scanners. All of these monitor the Garland system quite well.

As redhelmet13 has already mentioned, the Garland system has rebanded. You do need to enter the new control channel frequencies, which I'm guessing you already have. It is a Motorola Type 2 system. And, you can enter only the new control channels.

However, you also must enter the custom tables for a rebanded system. While this can be done on the scanner (it's in the "expert" section of the 'on scanner' programming menu), it's certainly much easier to do with software. WIN500 and PSREdit500 both can automatically enter the correct custom tables for rebanded Motorola systems. I would imagine that ARC500 can as well, though I do not have that software package. Once you've entered the custom table (be sure that you tell the scanner to use it; that step get's overlooked sometimes), you should hear Garland with no problems.

Without having access to a cable, and software, pull out the manual, or access it online, to help walk through resetting the tables. It can be done, but it will take a little time. You can see the table values that need to be entered on this page.

sladymon said:
I have the same problem with a pro-164. Including the flashing T and then static and silence.

I went to RS and talked to their 'expert' and he said it was NOT POSSIBLE to monitor garland as a trunked system!, that you just programmed all the published control freqs and set them to "FM" and let it scan sequentially.

I am in North Garland, and it is NOT a reception problem.

I have noticed the garland system transmit 'funky' talkgroup IDs that change (?), but I suspect the real problem as that the scanner needs a custom table to figure out the intended VC because garland does not use a standard freq offset table. This IS an option in my 164 BUT IT IS NOT IN THE BLOODY MANUAL!

This is unacceptable, however I find no other report of the same problem anywhere else on the web which seems puzzling to me.

On my 164, I program the freqs, set the type to "MO" but set the bank to "not trunked", and find the control channel and lock it out. The scanner get the talkgroup ID from the subaudible data whenever the repeater rebroadcasts. You still cant lock out certain talk groups or assign text tags, but I am still working on that.
Sam,
The Radio Shack "expert" you spoke to is full of beans. He (or she, whichever applies) fits my definition of an "expert", which is 'a drip under pressure'. In this case, the pressure is to sell you a cell phone or rc car, because scanners are over that person's head.

See the same rebanding article. I don't own a Pro-164, or the other models that are similar to it, so my comments will of necessity will be a little more general. It does appear that a firmware update was needed for the Pro-164 to handle rebanded systems. (If the scanner is new enough, it may already be installed). You can check on the Pro-164's page on Radio Shack's site, and click on the "support" tab for more information.

I think (again, since I do not own the scanner, I am not positive), that to enter the custom tables required for rebanded systems, you must use software. I don't believe it can be done without it (unlike on the Pro-106 & the other GRE manufactured digital scanners). If you are not already using software, see this page. If you have the proper firmware update applied, and program the Garland system as a Motorola Type 2 trunked system, with the correct frequencies, & the use the custom tables required, you'll also be able to scan the system.

You will shortly lose the ability to scan Plano (if that was of interest) because they are changing over to a P25 system (digital), within the next few months. But the correct firmware, & the custom table entries, will solve your Garland reception problems. Just don't let Bucky the Wonder Kid @ Radio Shack try to sell you a cell phone. He probably try to offload one of those soup cans with a string attached, like on the commercials.
 

hiegtx

Mentor
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
8,045
Location
Dallas, TX
I have the same problem with a pro-164. Including the flashing T and then static and silence.

I went to RS and talked to their 'expert' and he said it was NOT POSSIBLE to monitor garland as a trunked system!, that you just programmed all the published control freqs and set them to "FM" and let it scan sequentially.

I am in North Garland, and it is NOT a reception problem.

I have noticed the garland system transmit 'funky' talkgroup IDs that change (?), but I suspect the real problem as that the scanner needs a custom table to figure out the intended VC because garland does not use a standard freq offset table. This IS an option in my 164 BUT IT IS NOT IN THE BLOODY MANUAL!

This is unacceptable, however I find no other report of the same problem anywhere else on the web which seems puzzling to me.

On my 164, I program the freqs, set the type to "MO" but set the bank to "not trunked", and find the control channel and lock it out. The scanner get the talkgroup ID from the subaudible data whenever the repeater rebroadcasts. You still cant lock out certain talk groups or assign text tags, but I am still working on that.

Sam

PS For even more fun, go to the FCC database and find the VC freqs used by the cars/vehicles to broadcast to the repeater tower, they are seperate from the published control channel freqs that are used to repeat on. Set them to FM. Put them in the same bank as the control freqs set to "MO". Put these VC before AND after the control channels so that it will pick up the vehicle transmission before it gets repeated. Then you can tell if the officer/transmitter is 'nearby'.....
Here's another thread, regarding scanning a different rebanded Motorola system, where the OP is having much the same problems as you are in trying to scan Garland.

You definitely will need to use software to set the custom tables required, which means you'll also need the programming cable. While you did run into a less than knowledgeable salesperson at your local Radio Shack (as I have at times), not all of them are that dense. There are a number of knowledgeable ones who are members here, so not all are bad. If you find a good one, keep track of which store they're at.
 

fmon

Silent Key Jan. 14, 2012
Joined
May 11, 2002
Messages
7,741
Location
Eclipse, Virginia
In TSYS go to T-Tables and change from Default to Custom using ► twice. Then enter the 6 tables listed below authored by Wayne H on 3/19/08 in a Pro-96 forum. All GRE scanners use same setup for Mot rebanding of 866-869 systems.
Code:
ChLO ChHI Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
720  759  25.000    0     848.000000
815  831  25.000    0     846.625000
958  958  25.000  958     868.975000
961 1022  25.000    0     843.400000
 

gbeauw

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
4
Location
Richardson, TX
In TSYS go to T-Tables and change from Default to Custom using ► twice. Then enter the 6 tables listed below authored by Wayne H on 3/19/08 in a Pro-96 forum. All GRE scanners use same setup for Mot rebanding of 866-869 systems.
Code:
ChLO ChHI Step    Offset  Base
440  559  25.000  440     851.025000
000  719  25.000    0     851.012500
720  759  25.000    0     848.000000
815  831  25.000    0     846.625000
958  958  25.000  958     868.975000
961 1022  25.000    0     843.400000
Fmon,

That was the info I needed! Thank you very much.

BTW, I don't have the fancy software and cable but I find that the front panel interface is pretty straight forward to make the above changes. As soon as I entered the custom T(Trunk?) Tables, I started getting Garland just fine here in E. Richardson.

Now the question is did I miss something in the RR DB pages on Garland that gave the above info? If not, maybe the DB should be updated to give this sort of data. (Or maybe I'm just a newbee and don't understand what is supposed to be in the DB.) On the other hand, maybe this information was posted somewhere else that I should have checked. (See comment that I'm a newbie above.) If that's the case, please point me in the right direction so I don't have to bug the forum for stuff like this in the future.

Again, thanks for the information.
 

hiegtx

Mentor
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
8,045
Location
Dallas, TX
Fmon,

That was the info I needed! Thank you very much.

BTW, I don't have the fancy software and cable but I find that the front panel interface is pretty straight forward to make the above changes. As soon as I entered the custom T(Trunk?) Tables, I started getting Garland just fine here in E. Richardson.

Now the question is did I miss something in the RR DB pages on Garland that gave the above info? If not, maybe the DB should be updated to give this sort of data. (Or maybe I'm just a newbee and don't understand what is supposed to be in the DB.) On the other hand, maybe this information was posted somewhere else that I should have checked. (See comment that I'm a newbie above.) If that's the case, please point me in the right direction so I don't have to bug the forum for stuff like this in the future.

Again, thanks for the information.
gbeauw,
Those same custom "rebanding tables" were on this page, which I linked in my first post in this thread. It's in the Object Oriented Software Wiki article. It's also been kicked around a number of times in various threads in the GRE & Radio Shack forums, with a slightly different different table format needed for the Uniden scanners. That's why it's not in the database, as such, for each individual rebanded system. Not all of them will require the tables (Dallas Local Govt is one that did not; neither do EDACS or LTR systems- just enter the new frequencies, in the correct LCN slots & order). But for the rebanded Motorola systems that do require the custom tables, they will be the same, from system to system, for the same type of scanner.

One link to a discussion thread regarding the rebanded systems can be found in the "GRE archived stickies" link, here. GRE makes the PSR-500 (handheld) and PSR-600 (base/mobile). They also make the corresponding Pro-106 & Pro-197 for Radio Shack. Same scanners internally. Same operationally, the 106 & 500 have a different front panel layout. Inside the link above, is heading "Programming the GRE 500/600 scanners for rebanded Motorola trunked systems", and this link. (Remember that any comment regarding programming the PSR-500 applies to the Pro-106 as well; same with PSR-600 and Pro-197. Essentially, all four are the same scanner, other than the obvious handheld vs base/mobile. Programming & operation is the same.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top