New radio system for Hamilton

[cooke442]

I have been told that Hamilton Fire and Police are going live in August with a new motorola P25 radio sytem.

Apparently the system will be totally encrypted for both police and fire therefore it cannot be monitored by any scanner that exists. I could understand Hamilton Police going encrypted due to confiential situations they deal with but I'm not sure why fire woud be going totally encrypted.

Can anyone provide any information on this.

 

[EJB]

I have been told that Hamilton Fire and Police are going live in August with a new motorola P25 radio sytem.

Apparently the system will be totally encrypted for both police and fire therefore it cannot be monitored by any scanner that exists. I could understand Hamilton Police going encrypted due to confiential situations they deal with but I'm not sure why fire woud be going totally encrypted.

Can anyone provide any information on this.

Where did you find this tidbit of info; inside info, do you go to city meetings?

Its kinda like the chicken little thing, EVERY system around here is supposed to become unscannable; Halton last year, Toronto eventually, Mississauga is testing it out I heard, Waterloo Region is also....
Guelph PD did.

 

[FoeHammer]

Well windsor has gone , & the reports are coming in from all over north america
Its becoming a fact , No matter how much in denial you want to be ,....the ability to monitor your public service will sooner or later be no more,....
It looks like an organized effort to shut down monitoring to me , they may try to justify it many ways &.. not make it look like its one big effort,... by places going individually over time
but it sure feels like an orchestrated plan to me.....
Its a sad time for a peaceful hobby that existed so well for so many years...

 

[EJB]

Well windsor has gone , & the reports are coming in from all over north america
Its becoming a fact , No matter how much in denial you want to be ,....the ability to monitor your public service will sooner or later be no more,....
It looks like an organized effort to shut down monitoring to me , they may try to justify it many ways &.. not make it look like its one big effort,... by places going individually over time
but it sure feels like an orchestrated plan to me.....
Its a sad time for a peaceful hobby that existed so well for so many years...

I am not so much concerned with the inevitability. That is straying off the original posters topic,
Ya we all know that municipalities will buy state of the art radio equipment and this state of the art radio equipment is generally P25 and encrypted.

The original poster mentioned he had 'heard' that there was a change a brewing. I would like to know where on the city website could I find this info, cities have to entertain bids for services and such, and I cannot find where on the city website there is any mention of an upgrade.

 

[FoeHammer]

I am not so much concerned with the inevitability. That is straying off the original posters topic,
Ya we all know that municipalities will buy state of the art radio equipment and this state of the art radio equipment is generally P25 and encrypted.

The original poster mentioned he had 'heard' that there was a change a brewing. I would like to know where on the city website could I find this info, cities have to entertain bids for services and such, and I cannot find where on the city website there is any mention of an upgrade.

Well when we switched there was nothing posted online about it from the city or police that I am aware of
It was a word of mouth rumor first then a quick press conference by the pd just before the actual switch , telling the press how they can get info , & that's it...
I dont know if there would be any requirement by services to let anyone know ahead of time of a switch
generally from reading around here sometimes they tell you , but mostly they just do it.....
you might be able to find some contract bids or something if they are inclined to make that sort of thing available ...

 

[cooke442]

I found out through some part time firefighters that I know. Also if you check the minutes of the emergency and community services committee minutes from april 22, 2009, you will find the info.

thanks for getting back to me

 

[dbwrobel]

Here are a couple documents I found for the public services upgrade:

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres...0/Apr22HES08004aTrunkedRadioSystemUpgrade.pdf

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres...22Item82HES08004TrunkedRadioSystemUpgrade.pdf

Dan

 

[torontokris]

Was there any mention of encryption in there? I didn't see it.

I don't see how the P25 system will provide greater signal in areas that are weak now with the smartnet.. I would think it would be worse unless they are building new towers.

They make it seem like P25 will solve all the worlds problems and enhance "quality of life" and the "help the environment". LOL those Motorola sales guys.

 

[exkalibur]

Well they ARE right about coverage in fringe areas.

P25 has a distinct advantage in areas where there's little useable signal. In areas where on Analog you can barely hear the signal and have to strain to understand, P25 comes right through no problem. That's not universally true, but by and large it's the way it works.

 

[EJB]

Thank you to the member who gave us the links.

As for the orignal poster do you live in Hamilton? If you do perhaps you can email your city councillor or the mayor for more info about the new radio system.
Politicians are accountable to you and generally respond on a variety of issues if appropriate.

As TorontoKris mentioned, there was no mention of encryption.
That said we shall see how it goes?

 

[exkalibur]

A memo sent out to volunteer firefighters last year said that the new system will not be monitorable by scanners as it will incorporate encryption technology.

Take that with a grain of salt though. The OPP were told they were encrypted as well back in the day...

 

[unlisted]

This has been discussed a few times before..

As of right now, they ARE going P-25 and will be 100% ENC. Sucks, yes, but that is the plan as of the last meeting. (a few weeks ago) The radio system is still in the works, and lots of the FF's are complaining, raising issues that other depts are facing since switching to a comparable system.

On another note, the FD's new pager system will be going offline soon, and replaced with a new (narrowband) paging system. Haven't even had these pagers for a year yet. (good for me, I already scratched the heck outta this pager- lol)

http://forums.radioreference.com/ea...65-hamilton-public-safety-digital-switch.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/ea...ssion-forum/168991-hamilton-fire-problem.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/ea...ussion-forum/127061-hamilton-fire-pagers.html

I vollie PT with a dept in Hamilton Emergency Services.

 

[KE7JFF]

Sucks? its going AGANIST recommendation of the IAFC!

 

[VA3SOM]

i can not wait for the day when scanners come out that can listen to all of this and there goes the millions spent on encryption down the drain

What a waste of taxpayer money

 

[KE7JFF]

i can not wait for the day when scanners come out that can listen to all of this and there goes the millions spent on encryption down the drain

What a waste of taxpayer money

Breaking encryption would be a legal problem...

Encrpytion and P25 have no place on the fireground. Its a safety issue for thing and second, P25 audio does not quite work with masks and what not due to the sounds of breathing.

I hope the fire chief along with the firefighters realize this and show up at every meeting saying NO.