new Rome City radio system to be trunked UHF

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SCPD

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I wonder if its possiable to but a nexedge radio online with the programming software and cables ect. ( i know it would cost a fortune), but theoretically would it be possiable to buy a radio, programmit to romes uhf frequencies and listen in
 

studgeman

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If it was P25 you could at least buy a scanner for it, and buy a radio that would work on the county and the trunked system. Not that they are cheap radios, but at least they exist.
 

tbski100

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I wonder if its possiable to but a nexedge radio online with the programming software and cables ect. ( i know it would cost a fortune), but theoretically would it be possiable to buy a radio, programmit to romes uhf frequencies and listen in

For Rome listening I'm guessing it won't be that easy as say nexedge conventional. From what I'm reading on here Rome is a nexedge trunked system. There is a system key involved and that's not going to be given out to anyone. If they ran a fireground channel they were licensed for let's say in simplex nexedge you might be able to acquire the equipment to monitor that one particular frequency. But you will still need to know the squelch code - RAN etc. It is probably mainly trunked and engineered as such. Not really worth all the hassle.
 

c0untyb0y

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at least we'd have a good guess as to how the narrowbanding at the county level would have gone had Masucci won the Sheriff's race last year.
 

studgeman

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I wouldn't assume that. He didn't have much input into the new Rome system, and NXDN wasn't his choice.
 

Prospect62

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not that having a non-standards compliant digital radio system is a bad thing, except when it comes to... oh, say... law enforcement officer safety. a certain other law enforcement agency used to have an EDACS radio in their patrol cars with Rome police and fire programmed in addition to Utica and New Hartford. so now if the proverbial "stuff" hits the fan in Rome, Oneida County 9-1-1 has to humanly relay that to county MRD versus just tuning in on the EDACS radio.

fire & EMS fairs no better in this respect either.

what a HUGE step forward in interoperability!

X2. And take it from me....waiting for stuff happening in another jurisdiction to be "humanly" relayed by a dispatcher...well, you'll be waiting long enough for it not to matter anymore...in my agency it's now been advised across the board to monitor other agencies as best you can with in-car and portable radios because stuff simply IS NOT being relayed "humanly" at all, or not fast enough.

Anyway, yeah. What CountyBoy said...one giant leap back for interoperability Rome.
 

radioman2001

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From reading IDAS trunking, and assuming that NXDN digital is the same( since they are supposed to be the same format), RAN codes are like PL's or DPL's, putting a ran code of 0 listens to all ran codes, like C.S. While you might not be able to follow a conversation, you might be able to listen conventionally. Doesn't this sound like years back with Motorola trunking?
 

KD2DXF

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Lewis County also has nexedge capability, i see they have emmisions designator 4K00F1E for the mobiles, bases, and for the 155.37, i wonder who else is hoping on the boat
 

radionerd13669

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Their was just an article in the wdt about Lewis county and their radio system. IDAS/NXDN is good but they wont get any federal funding for that. The grants require APCO25 compliant.

And in regards to an earlier post remember it doesn't matter if Rome is NXDN Digital Lewis county is APCO25 there will always be analog simplex and that is what agencies would use for inter operable communications they don't need to talk on every two way radio system in the area to be inter operable
 

KD2DXF

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And in regards to an earlier post remember it doesn't matter if Rome is NXDN Digital Lewis county is APCO25 there will always be analog simplex and that is what agencies would use for inter operable communications they don't need to talk on every two way radio system in the area to be inter operable

What you mean lewis county is p25? i havent heard nothing digital in lewis county other that the hospital, i was looking at some old licenses and noticed new emission tags for lewis county. The license is there, but lewis county doesnt have the hardware.
 

radionerd13669

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I meant saying if they went to digital it doesn't matter who uses what that they will always have analog simplex to talk to one another.

they recommendation was that lewis go to a vhf p25 system
 

KD2DXF

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ooh ok, i was unaware of that. I know the company who survey lewis county did a 110 page report detailing how a new system would be, id love to get my hands on that. seems stupid to put lewis on a p25 system, no need for it up here.
 

studgeman

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Well there is more to P25 than just digital voice and I can definatly see a need for some of the data features. P25 capability is the way to go with Jefferson and Oswego headed in that direction. Think snowmobile season and inter-county coordination on the trails. APX portables or the other Multi-band radios could be used to work with Oswego and eventually Jefferson. P25 data capabilites also gives you GPS on the portable radio. A really nice feature when you are in the middle of nowhere trying to find someone on a cellphone. P25 systems are made to seamlessly integrate into 911 systems.

I normally would have preferred a UHF system recommendation for interoperability purposes, it is a cost trade off between infrastructure and subscribers. I haven't seen the numbers yet, but it might actually be cheaper, overall, to be VHF infrastructure and get the interoperabity at the subscriber level. Thankfully we now have that option, frequency bands no longer dictate the way it used to!
 

c0untyb0y

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ooh ok, i was unaware of that. I know the company who survey lewis county did a 110 page report detailing how a new system would be, id love to get my hands on that. seems stupid to put lewis on a p25 system, no need for it up here.

Federal Engineering? if Susan is involved I'd love to get my hands on that too ;)

But on a more serious note... when these counties, like the CNYICC group, apply for frequencies, would it be to their advantage or disadvantage to get a blanket license for all frequencies in a regional area radio network? I only say that because it sounds like the CNYICC network is going to be a bear to interop CNYICC county to county because each county got different frequencies. I still don't think there is a clear cut answer from the Moto engineers on how a pursuit can "roam" from county to county or even whose 9-1-1 PSAP runs that pursuit. why have a multi million dollar radio network if you can't even talk to your neighboring counties, even when sharing the same master site!?
 

KD2DXF

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Federal Engineering? if Susan is involved I'd love to get my hands on that too ;)

But on a more serious note... when these counties, like the CNYICC group, apply for frequencies, would it be to their advantage or disadvantage to get a blanket license for all frequencies in a regional area radio network? I only say that because it sounds like the CNYICC network is going to be a bear to interop CNYICC county to county because each county got different frequencies. I still don't think there is a clear cut answer from the Moto engineers on how a pursuit can "roam" from county to county or even whose 9-1-1 PSAP runs that pursuit. why have a multi million dollar radio network if you can't even talk to your neighboring counties, even when sharing the same master site!?

We cannot interop with ourselvs let alone another county at the moment. Fire/EMS/Law cannot talk to one another. Law has more interop than anything, i know the sheriffs adios are all set on scan, all the neighboring counyies are in the radio. depending on the Fire/EMS agency some are able to talk to oneanother, some cannot. West Leyden is such a good example, between a lo band county and a high band county, while being dispatched for both, must suck having to carry 2 portables around.
 

studgeman

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Countyboy to answer your questions

Licenising: Part 90 frequencies are licensed on a per-site basis, so you can't "technically" license a geographic area for a fixed station, that is why they are going through the process they are, also add in Industry Canada who really does care where you put stations into operation. Now on the part 22 side you can be licensed for a geographic area, but note those are commercial frequencies with different requirements. Cell systems are licensed based on geographic market areas. I can tell you specifically that some of the frequencies used in Madison County could't be licensed in Cayuga because of Monroe Co. Coordination is a driving issue too

To answer you interop question. For roaming, think Statewide systems, NYSEG, or your cellphone. They all do it.

The maufacturers have an answer and have had an answer for a while. In the end it is all about programming and governance. The scenerio is the same for an intra-system connection (CNYCIC) or and inter-system connection (ISSI). In the most liberal scenerio a radio moves from one system or cell and handoffs to the neighboring system or cell. The system connections keep the audio and data flowing. The user has no knowlege this happened. The dispatcher may or may not know depending on console programming, but no intervention is required. How would Oswego and Onandaga Co.s talk? One of 3 ways: common talkgroup, dynamic re-group channel or a dispatcher initiated patch.

And as far as which PSAP runs a persuit, the technology doens't care, that is a governance issue.

I glossed over some of the details, let me know if you need me to dive deeper into some of it.

Interoperability is 10% Technology 90% Politics
 

c0untyb0y

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now that we've forked this thread from it's root...

thanks studgeman. I think your last statement about interop/government is accurate, if not even more lopsided than that!

must be the governance of the CNYICC is where that whole "can't roam, engineers said so" notion came from but in reality translates to "technically yes it's doable but by policy forbidden" or the one that gets me... life safety and all... it's all about the $$$ and who pays for what, or rather who is getting paid to do what.

I'm a techie by trade and love details and to know what the system is capable of doing, not what policy says it can or can't do. the more I know about these systems the better I can understand, and help others understand it as well.
 

KD2DXF

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yeah its Federal Enginering, but i called them, and they said they could not send me a copy of the report, but was hinting to me that if the county pays the full price the 1o million that it would be a trunked system, maybe i can file a freedom of information to the county to get a copy of it
 

studgeman

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Matt the study should be a public document, they may argue over the analysis of the existing system, but anything about a new system is releasable. They cannot redact an entire document because 2 pages are sensitive. Federal Eng. should have delivered an electonic copy (PDF) to the county. I would ask for it in that format.

I remember when we were putting the interoperability continuium together there was a lot of discussion (fighting) on how to show the equal importance of thechnology and the governance. What we finally wound up with was the horizontal bars. It was the best we could do in two dimensions, it does fail to show the necessary inter-relationships for sucess.
 
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