New RR TOS Broadcast Terms Check Off List

[K4IHS]

The new TOS agreement has 20 some check off boxes. The TOS isn't really much different then before but now you have to tic every item and then agree by clicking on the certify all box to stream. I'm guessing this is because of the incident that occurred this past week in St. Petersburg, FL with the SWAT TG being streamed. Reading and checking the boxes made me take a LONG HARD LOOK at ALL my streamed talkgroups. Soooo... I went through them one by one. The PD here has TAC channels (that I don't stream) but they use the dispatch channels everyday for stuff that should have been moved to a TAC channel... so I can't stream the dispatch channels. Even the meter maid TG has routine plate checks with names so I can't stream them. The FD routinely has the arson squad come up on the fire scene TAC TG so that's off the list. Just listening to the FD and EMS dispatch TG's this morning I heard 2-3 comms that violated the RR TOS. Even the TG's for special events like parades violate the TOS because PD units often switch to them to discuss sensitive issues. Sometimes I hear more sensitive comms on those TG's then the SWAT and CID TG's. The crews must do that because they think they're safe... maybe because of little or no other radio traffic. When I got done... not one TG passed the criterion to stream! I've turned off my stream to think about this a little bit... :-(

 

[NYRHKY94]

Ralph:

You may want to review this thread from yesterday before drawing any final conclusions. One of the posts from Gordon specficially deals with plate checks etc. on dispatch channels.

http://forums.radioreference.com/li...service-certification-required-all-feeds.html

Thanks - Mike

 

[blantonl]

That's correct. You need to re-read the TOS.


I agree to NOT broadcast dedicated channels or talkgroups used for SWAT, tactical, narcotics, CID, and investigations related communications.
I agree to NOT broadcast prison and corrections communications.
I agree to NOT broadcast channels or talkgroups used ONLY to request records information (license checks, criminal history checks, NCIC etc)

 

[n5ims]

I believe that you're missing a key term in the TOS (Feed Provider Terms of Service - The RadioReference Wiki). "Feed providers agree to not broadcast dedicated channels or talkgroups used for SWAT, tactical, narcotics, CID, and investigations related communications."

Your dispatch channel is OK regardless of what the PD transmits over it. Should they choose to use their dispatch channel for an ongoing SWAT operation, your still OK to stream it per the TOS (as explained directly in their example of what is/isn't allowed). What you can't do is stream a dedicated SWAT channel, even if they never use it for SWAT operations, but as their channel to take and fill the department's coffee and doughnut orders.

Check out Lindsay's thread on this topic (http://forums.radioreference.com/li...-terms-service-what-can-cannot-broadcast.html) that has the following examples for clarification:
Some examples to help you understand what can and cannot be put on your feed:

1) If an agency has a dedicated frequency or talkgroup for SWAT operations - it is not allowed to be on the feed. If the agency's SWAT team operates on the PD regular dispatch frequency, than it is OK.

2) If an agency has a dedicated frequency for ambulance to hospital communications, it is not allow to be on the feed. If the EMS agency passes patient reports over the regular EMS Dispatch channel, that's OK.

 

[K4IHS]

NYRHKY94 Mike: Thanks... I missed the other thread but just read it. What a mess! The TG in the RR database for my area may say PD DISPATCH but I know it's used for many other comms that violate the RR TOS! Just giving it the label of DISPATCH doesn't mean it's a dedicated TG? I mean who says what designation a TG gets? Usually it was just submitted by a listener to a dabase manager. I wonder how many are wrong? If an incident gets hot... they don't stop in the middle and have everyone switch to a TAC TG. My county PD/FD/EMS is now a mix of Motorola trunked and new digital P25. I had to buy a new digital scanner to keep listening. I stream what I listen to. I'm not going to pay that much money for a scanner and then lock out all the good stuff so I can use it to stream! :-(

 

[rdale]

The TG in the RR database for my area may say PD DISPATCH but I know it's used for many other comms that violate the RR TOS!

That makes no sense... Unless it's a dedicated TG for those purposes, it can't violate the TOS. If it has dispatch, it's not a dedicated TAC channel. So TOS is not being violated, unless I'm missing something?

 

[K4IHS]

Are all the listed TG's in the RR database 100% correct? My monitored system is undergoing change. TG's are changing almost daily. Who is to say that TG 18096 in the Lee County system is DISPATCH? It got labeled that way because somebody submitted the info to a data base manager in another part of the state. Soooo... if I'm streaming TG 18384 labeled as POLICE EVENTS in the RR database and a PD officer uses it as a TAC channel for a SWAT hit... I may not be here to interupt the stream so the SWAT comms gets streamed. Define dedicated... marked as such in the RR data base or how the police department is actually using it? When you see a red LIVE AUDIO ALERT on RR for a police pursuit (only routine dispatch operations and and special events are allowed)... are they streaming a DISPATCH TG?

 

[blantonl]

I updated the TOS to better clarify law enforcement. It now reads:

Feed providers agree to ONLY broadcast routine dispatch and special events channels and talkgroups for law enforcement agencies.

 

[rdale]

Are all the listed TG's in the RR database 100% correct? My monitored system is undergoing change. TG's are changing almost daily.

Sorry - going to have to pull the "exaggeration" button on that post. TG uses don't change daily, or anywhere near daily. I have never seen an example where they took a PD DISPATCH channel and turned it into SWAT OPS one afternoon for the fun of it.

 

[GTR8000]

Are all the listed TG's in the RR database 100% correct? My monitored system is undergoing change. TG's are changing almost daily. Who is to say that TG 18096 in the Lee County system is DISPATCH? It got labeled that way because somebody submitted the info to a data base manager in another part of the state. Soooo... if I'm streaming TG 18384 labeled as POLICE EVENTS in the RR database and a PD officer uses it as a TAC channel for a SWAT hit... I may not be here to interupt the stream so the SWAT comms gets streamed. Define dedicated... marked as such in the RR data base or how the police department is actually using it? When you see a red LIVE AUDIO ALERT on RR for a police pursuit (only routine dispatch operations and and special events are allowed)... are they streaming a DISPATCH TG?

You're over-thinking this. Use a little common sense and there won't be any issues. If the TG/Frequency is marked in the RR dB as "SWAT Tactical" or "Police Surveillance", then don't stream it. If you know that a TG/Frequency marked as "PD Dispatch" is actually being used for SWAT Ops in real life, then don't stream it.

What is so complicated about any of this?

 

[keithmj]

According to TOS..
No PSTA (bus) and Saint Petersburg, Florida police has 48 talkgroups and I can only use 10 of these and the Pinellas Sheriff has 39 talkgroups and I can only use 7 of these...Peace to all and happy Scanning..Keithmj

 

[ghahn]

Audio Feed TOS - What about railroad comms?

Per the checkbox: I agree to NOT broadcast private businesses. (Taxis, Buses, Towing, Security, Rental etc)

How is "private business" defined? There are lots of railroad feeds out there, in fact it's a category, if I recall. This is a business. Some railroads are publicly held (stock traded), some are privately owned.

Gary

 

[nexus]

I certainly don't have any problem with the current ToS as written. Personally I think it's a bad idea to be feeding tactical channels for law enforcement. Something like that which is a officer safety issue. Most police departments understand that their "dispatch" channel is usually made accessible to the media, but not any of their other channels.

And who would want to be listening to 15 or 20 channels or talkgroups on a feed anyhow? Certainly not me. I've always streamed just the PD and FD dispatch talkgroups and nothing else. By doing that you increase the chance of being able to follow more of the conversations.

 

[K4IHS]

I have a new P25 system here in Lee Co where the PD is encrypted one day and not the next. The new P25 digital system is simulcast with an older analog. Not all agencies are making the jump to P25 this year. For example... Cape Coral has switched and the biggest user Lee Co Sheriff has not. The same conversation is one talkgroup on the P25... and another on the analog. The TG's change on the digital side. One day it may be EMS dispatch and a few days later the same TG is a PD TAC and the EMS talkgroup moved to another. Maybe rdale should come down here and straighten them out?

 

[kendrik578]

Per the checkbox: I agree to NOT broadcast private businesses. (Taxis, Buses, Towing, Security, Rental etc)

How is "private business" defined? There are lots of railroad feeds out there, in fact it's a category, if I recall. This is a business. Some railroads are publicly held (stock traded), some are privately owned.

Gary

Rail is fine, we have "Rail" as one of our feed genres.

 

[K4IHS]

That's another bump. Here in Fort Myers we have a dinner train (it's a buisness) that shares the same road channe(s) as the regular railroad. You can't listen to one without hearing the other. Murder Mystery Train :: Seminole Gulf Railway

 

[ghahn]

Well then my problem is that RadioReference is asking me to check a TOS box that puts me in violation of the box itself unless the wording is adjusted. Or did I miss some uber-wording about exemption if it's an official genre? BTW, I heartily appreciate the service offered.

 

[ghahn]

Additionally, the box for "I agree to NOT broadcast any other content the RadioReference staff feels is inappropriate for the RadioReference audience." should probably read "I agree to immediately cease broadcast of any other content the RadioReference staff feels is inappropriate for the RadioReference audience when notified of such content by email." Otherwise I cannot read the mind of the staff in advance. How would I know what is deemed inappropriate unless I'm told by some push method

Blanket statements such as this don't make good legal or legal-like agreements. Since RadioReference can stop the feed if something is found inappropriate, this TOS box may not even be necessary.

Again, not complaining, just trying to help avoid problems!

 

[kendrik578]

Well then my problem is that RadioReference is asking me to check a TOS box that puts me in violation of the box itself unless the wording is adjusted. Or did I miss some uber-wording about exemption if it's an official genre? BTW, I heartily appreciate the service offered.

Did you look at the examples for what private business's we mean?

Rail is fine or else we would not have a genre titled "Rail". I know your just trying to find out whats allowed and whats not but yall are seriously making this more complicated than it is

 

[kendrik578]

Additionally, the box for "I agree to NOT broadcast any other content the RadioReference staff feels is inappropriate for the RadioReference audience." should probably read "I agree to immediately cease broadcast of any other content the RadioReference staff feels is inappropriate for the RadioReference audience when notified of such content by email." Otherwise I cannot read the mind of the staff in advance. How would I know what is deemed inappropriate unless I'm told by some push method

Blanket statements such as this don't make good legal or legal-like agreements. Since RadioReference can stop the feed if something is found inappropriate, this TOS box may not even be necessary.

Again, not complaining, just trying to help avoid problems!

If we have ANY problems with your feed you can bet you will be contacted.