New Scaner for PDX Metro

[pdxrealtor]

So it sounds like there is no guarantees or way to figure out for sure which TGs will be on the radio if trying to access through CCOM control channel. Is that correct?

 

[Otto]

In regards to picking up Washington county on CCOM? No.

Here is a good example on BOEC, I can listen only to the PDX airport control channel, and I will hear all airport ops. I usually can also hear N/NE and Central, but rarely do I hear East. They are all on the same system, but the PDX site really works mostly the airport stuff. Same goes for if I only listen to Goat mtn or corn. Pass. I only get to hear traffic the has radios affiliated with that site. If I listen to the simulcast backbone though, I can hear all of it. Your scanner sort of does this too. That's why you enter multiple control channels. The scanner chooses which one come in the clearest and decides the TGID information from there. If that control channel has no users on said TG affiliated, it will not transmit anything for those TGs.
That's why, if you really want to hear all of WCCCA from troutdale, your scanner needs to lock onto a WCCCA control simulcast control channel.
Locking into the CCOM control channel simulcast can have WCCCA users on it, but it's not reliable, especially if for instance you want to monitor Hillsboro. Most likely none of their radios will affiliate with any CCOM sites.
I hope I have made some sense of how multiple users can use a wide area trunking system, yet be "independent". From one another.

 

[Otto]

And to make it even more complicated, not all the agencies on that system are dispatched from the same 911 center. Washington Co. Is the WCCCA 911 center, which is all of wa. Co. CCOM dispatches all of Clackamas county except for Lake Oswego, West Linn and Milwaukie.
lake o and w. Linn are on their own 911 center called LOCOM. Milwaukie is actually not on the same system, and uses the Portland Public Safety system or BOEC. Newberg/Dundee also have their own 911 center as well.

 

[pdxrealtor]

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. How do I check out the different transmitter locations like Goat Mountain? I want to see them all, and read about them also. Is it on the wiki?

PDX airport ops. That sounds fun. I assume that's on the wiki too?

 

[sparklehorse]

I hear Washington County Sheriff pretty consistently on the Clackamas Simulcast site(s). Also South Cities, TVFR, and oddly enough Hillsboro PD. Not sure why HPD affiliates to Clack so often, but they do. I have yet to hear Beaverton PD on the Clack system, but I'm sure it happens occasionally.

 

[sparklehorse]

So right after I post that last message I look over at my scanner and see that Beaverton PD is booming in on the Clackamas Simulcast site(s). Go figure.

 

[Otto]

It's actually all on the radio reference database. For Portland, for instance you will see all the different sites listed under the trunked frequencies. There all sites are listed. If you only want to listen to one site, you only enter the frequencies via free scan for that site and disable CC only scanning. You have to reprogram the radio slightly to do this, but with freescan it's pretty easy.

It's even easier with the Homepatrol scanner. You just select sites from the advanced menu of the system you have locked and set avoids on all the other sites you don't want to hear.

I have also done it with a SDR dongle radio and software in my computer. That's actually a fun way to do it because. You see a graphical out put for all the active frequencies. And it's super cheap too. (The software is free and the dongle was like $20 with a cruddy antenna. )

 

[Otto]

So right after I post that last message I look over at my scanner and see that Beaverton PD is booming in on the Clackamas Simulcast site(s). Go figure.

Oh ok. I guess they probably do affiliate onto CCOM. I'll admit, I don't listen to them very often, and when I do, I am usually in Washibgton county.
As far as listening to CCOM, I have to also admit that I mostly only listen to them with a $40 Baofeng radio on the Vhf patch. In fact, because of my laziness in setting up my 15X scanner which had trouble in its stock configuration would miss a quarter of CCOM trunked transmissions, I even used just the vhf for CCSO while mobile, which work remarkably well.

 

[DickH]

...I have also done it with a SDR dongle radio and software in my computer. That's actually a fun way to do it because. You see a graphical out put for all the active frequencies. And it's super cheap too. (The software is free and the dongle was like $20 with a cruddy antenna. )

I'm thinking of playing around with SDR. How does the sensitivity of the dongle compare with a regular scanner?

 

[sparklehorse]

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. How do I check out the different transmitter locations like Goat Mountain? I want to see them all, and read about them also. Is it on the wiki?

PDX airport ops. That sounds fun. I assume that's on the wiki too?

So as I understand it, the outlying sites -- like Goat Mountain for Clackamas for example, or Cornelius Pass for Portland -- are "fill-in" sites to provide coverage where the Simulcast system doesn't reach effectively. When a unit is out near one of these sites, his/her radio affiliates to that site, and for as long as they're out there the talkgroup they're on is broadcast on that site. When they return to the Simulcast coverage area their talkgroup is no longer broadcast on the fill-in site. So as a rule you only need to enter the Simulcast frequencies in your radio for a given system.

 

[Otto]

I'm thinking of playing around with SDR. How does the sensitivity of the dongle compare with a regular scanner?

Well I guess it depends on the dongle you get. The one I bought, which was the RTL one came with an ok antenna. You have to keep in mind that the antenna supplied with these dongles are for TV reception. I picked up strong local signals just fine if I adjusted the receive gain to max. Once I changed the antenna, that all changed. They are pretty sensitive as long as the antenna you're using is good.

Here is an example. I was able to listen to Astoria Police from my home in close in NE Portland on vhf with the provided three foot cord and supplied antenna base, and added a compatible all band antenna element from a previous mobile antenna that fit the threads. That was with using it on my couch, with a canning lid as a ground plane.

 

[Otto]

So as I understand it, the outlying sites -- like Goat Mountain for Clackamas for example, or Cornelius Pass for Portland -- are "fill-in" sites to provide coverage where the Simulcast system doesn't reach effectively. When a unit is out near one of these sites, his/her radio affiliates to that site, and for as long as they're out there the talkgroup they're on is broadcast on that site. When they return to the Simulcast coverage area their talkgroup is no longer broadcast on the fill-in site. So as a rule you only need to enter the Simulcast frequencies in your radio for a given system.

As far as I know this is correct.

That's why pdx realtor can hear Washington county units on CCOM sites. As long as their radios are affiliated with a CCOM site, it will transmit that TG.

 

[DickH]

Well I guess it depends on the dongle you get. The one I bought, which was the RTL one came with an ok antenna. You have to keep in mind that the antenna supplied with these dongles are for TV reception. I picked up strong local signals just fine if I adjusted the receive gain to max. Once I changed the antenna, that all changed. They are pretty sensitive as long as the antenna you're using is good.

Here is an example. I was able to listen to Astoria Police from my home in close in NE Portland on vhf with the provided three foot cord and supplied antenna base, and added a compatible all band antenna element from a previous mobile antenna that fit the threads. That was with using it on my couch, with a canning lid as a ground plane.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like it's worth trying.

 

[sparklehorse]

Here is an example. I was able to listen to Astoria Police from my home in close in NE Portland on vhf with the provided three foot cord and supplied antenna base, and added a compatible all band antenna element from a previous mobile antenna that fit the threads. That was with using it on my couch, with a canning lid as a ground plane.

Any chance you were receiving Polk County Sheriff on 155.25, instead of Astoria PD? Not saying Astoria isn't possible, especially if there was good tropospheric ducting at the time, but in my expererience anything making it over the hill from Clatsop County is a rare occurance in Portland. Polk County on the other hand can often be received quite well from parts of the Portland area. Just curious. Maybe there's a narrow slot through the hills that Astoria gets through?

.

 

[Otto]

You might be right about it being Polk County sheriff. I did not decode the CTCSS when I heard the traffic. It was not really strong, but it was definitely law enforcement. I just looked through the RR database, and figured it was Astoria since they seemed closer than Polk County.

 

[sparklehorse]

Otto,
Did you ever return your Home Patrol? I think I saw a thread where you were going to return it due to a squelch issue or something. Anyway, the BCD536HP might fit your mobile needs if the HP isn't working out. I just got one and I'm really liking it. Haven't had any issues with SD card corruption or clock battery, yet anyway (knock on wood). And the Siren App is working now, albeit in limited functionality at this point. But if you have an iPhone you could use the Siren App on your cell as a remote head in your vehicle to control the 536, which you could mount under a seat or something. Just a thought.

G

 

[Otto]

I decided to keep the Home Patrol2 unit. After a few condescending posts from radio reference members, I figured out the squelch issue. In hind sight, I think the HP2 unit was overkill. I found that I am not really listening to anything digital, let alone phase II, so a HP1 would have sufficed for my needs.
Thanks for the recommendation on the other scanner. Yes, it would work for my needs using my phone to remote control the scanner, and that might be an option in the future. So far the Home Patrol unit is working out fine.