New site for the Arvada/Westminster system coming?

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tbiggums

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It looks like the Arvada/Westminster EDACS system may have a new site coming online at some point. A modification was made to their system license WNYK448 back in December that adds four new 800 MHz frequencies to the site that Arvada FD's UHF repeaters used to be at, so I'd expect coverage to be similar to what Arvada FD had on 453.15 and 453.55. The current EDACS system has a voter receiver at that site now, and the CLEER radio for Arvada and Westminster is also there.

The new frequencies are:

854.6625
854.7375
856.0375
856.0875

I'm not hearing anything on these frequencies at this time.

Since it's only four channels, my guess is this new site may only carry Arvada PD and FD traffic. I'd imagine that even if they allowed RED NW, BLUE NW, or METRO NET on that site, they'd experience a lot more busys than they're currently used to.

It's interesting that the first two channels are only 75 kHz apart, and the last two are only 50 kHz! Guess they'll have to use a hybrid transmit combiner or something...
 

tbiggums

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Looks like one of these is on the air now. A new EDACS control channel is active on 856.0375 from the hilltop site at 81st and Osceola in Westminster. It's showing as site ID 3, and seems idle so far.

Haven't had a chance to put Etrunk or Unitrunker on it yet, so not sure if it's running ESK or what LCN the control channel is.
 

greenthumb

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Shows LCN 2 - 856.0375 and it's in failsoft and no neighbors, so they don't have it connected to their IMC just yet.
 

greenthumb

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And if they want to put all of those on the air at an in-town site, they'll probably run into some receiver problems on those closely spaced channels if a mobile transmits nearby, plus they won't be able to put them into one combiner and transmit antenna, so their cost for this site is going way up due to poor frequency planning.
 

tbiggums

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Yeah, I'm sure it's a 'take what you can get' kind of deal in the metro area for 800 MHz frequencies...

I was originally thinking they might simulcast the two new sites, but now there's a 5th channel of 859.3875 licensed to the 81st and Osceola site only. So I'm not sure what they're going to do...

I would assume these new sites would be for public safety only, as 4-5 channels is hardly enough to support all the public works and PD/FD traffic during the daytime. Even 3-4 voice channels for both Arvada and Westminster PD & FD's will be pushing it.
 

greenthumb

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Yeah, about all we can do is speculate. It could even be the case that they're just putting up that site to see what kind of coverage it will provide to find out if it will even be worth it. Just caught one affiliation today on TG 1536, which based on my math just appears to be an agency call, so who knows...guess time will tell :)
 

Steve2003

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For those with the Uniden Home Patrol the new Extreme upgrade just came out. Just in time to test out the EDACS LCN finder feature!
 

Thayne

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They get such good coverage from Eldorado, it would be surprising if they ever quit that site. I was looking around with the binoculars last time I was there, it is cool to see Denver and just turn to your left and see Boulder & everything to the east too.
 

greenthumb

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It is a great site, but they do have talk-in problems in areas of Westminster & Arvada, hence the receiver voting site they have on the system.
 

tbiggums

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I tried to fire up my old Etrunk setup at home last night, and unfortunately the signal strength from the new site isn't good enough for a solid decode. Was able to verify that 856.0375 is LCN 2, though. No ESK.

I listen to Arvada quite a bit, and I'd say it seems like they have more trouble with talk-out coverage (from ElDorado to the mobiles/portables). That system has had voter receivers at 68th & Estes, and just southeast of 72nd and Wadsworth since day one. I think they also had/have a third voter site in Westminster, possibly at that 81st and Osceola site.

The areas they seem to have the most problems with are where ElDorado is shadowed, like 68th and Wadsworth and a larger area down the hill southeast of 72nd and Wadsworth. I'll often hear Arvada PD units telling dispatch something to the effect of "make a note in the radio log that I'm at 64th and Wadsworth and that last transmission didn't come though". The voter receivers seem to work pretty well filling in the talk-back coverage in these areas, but with ElDorado being 12-15 miles away and essentially behind a hill, it'll be fairly noisy with a portable radio on the belt.

With El Dorado being a privately owned site, I'd imagine it costs them a lot to keep the system up there. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a long term plan to go to a simulcast system using in-town sites that they don't have to pay rent at...
 

Thayne

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It is a great site, but they do have talk-in problems in areas of Westminster & Arvada, hence the receiver voting site they have on the system.
Yep, I suppose there are some shadowed or low areas, but it sure gets most of Denver very well. I love the way Eldorado is designed, (Easy to Add antennas or run coax & has a nice generator setup) but no 3 phase big power up there.
I heard the stories about the guy that built it and lived there. All that is left of his house is the slab & part of the foundation; I wonder why it was demolished?

I forgot to mention the road is really toast, not much maintenance lately I guess.
 

rckydenver

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For those with the Uniden Home Patrol the new Extreme upgrade just came out. Just in time to test out the EDACS LCN finder feature!
Using that feature on my HP-1 but not seeing anything, just a white square on LCN 2 showing that freqency. Early i was using the band scope and other features.

Edit to add: Using the Stystem Status, i'm getting about a 6-7 signal, 100% quality, and zero activity. And for my Activity Log under discription it shows Site 3, LCN 2.

I'll let it run on this for awhile and see what happens. Like this new feature for the HP-1
 
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Steve2003

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Unfortunately there needs to be more activity on the site before I can determine the proper LCN order of the site frequencies. I get a white box on LCN 2 as well.
 

rckydenver

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Unfortunately there needs to be more activity on the site before I can determine the proper LCN order of the site frequencies. I get a white box on LCN 2 as well.
After an hour on the Activity Log i gave up(No Activity) and went my listening again.

Just tried the Discovery Search mode between 418.xxx and 425.xxx and after five minutes i hit end and the whole thing rebooted..(Been also reported in Uniden Forum.)
 
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They get such good coverage from Eldorado, it would be surprising if they ever quit that site. I was looking around with the binoculars last time I was there, it is cool to see Denver and just turn to your left and see Boulder & everything to the east too.
I've heard Westy/Arvada on my Pro106 with the ducky sitting in Ft. Morgan. When I lived in Brighton, when Westy/Arvada fired up 800 and left UHF (Westy), reception was far better than ADCOM, back when ADCOM was using UHF.

Come to think of it, where was the Westy UHF repeater located, I thought is was around the 88th and Federal area.
 
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tbiggums

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I passed by the 81st and Osceola site the other day, and it looks like it has a directional antenna aimed southeast and downtilted pretty good. So this would be a site with coverage limited to a fairly small area of southeast Westminster. But this would be an area that is shadowed from ElDorado...
 

tbiggums

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Finally checked up on this site the other night, and it Westminster PD 1 is the only talkgroup I'm hearing on it. Didn't listen for too long, so maybe there are some other TG's on there sometimes... All 5 channels appear to be in use, with the following LCN numbers:

Arvada/Westminster EDACS Site 03, 81st & Osceola:
LCN 1, 854.6625
LCN 2, 856.0375
LCN 3, 859.3875
LCN 4, 854.7375
LCN 5, 856.0875
 

rckydenver

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Finally checked up on this site the other night, and it Westminster PD 1 is the only talkgroup I'm hearing on it. Didn't listen for too long, so maybe there are some other TG's on there sometimes... All 5 channels appear to be in use, with the following LCN numbers:

Arvada/Westminster EDACS Site 03, 81st & Osceola:
LCN 1, 854.6625
LCN 2, 856.0375
LCN 3, 859.3875
LCN 4, 854.7375
LCN 5, 856.0875
I put those freqs in the scanner and with the wildcard and the only TG i'm seeing is 529 which is Westy PD 1, I've been running the scanner for the last couple of hours. Wondering if Westy PD has a dead spot in some areas and are using these to fill in. Just a thought.
 
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