NEW State P25 System ACTIVE in St. Lucie Area!

[SOFA_KING]

Ever have one of those days where you were just messing around with the scanner and you came across something odd that caught you off guard?

Well that is what happened to me this morning when I put my BC785D into search mode and latched onto a full scale (6 bars) P25 transmission on a frequency I never saw before. Some talk of green stuff in the water canals and "water management must have opened the gates". :?: TG ID 10,0XX (I did not write it down.) At first I thought it might be Martin County SO because of the ID. Ahh...no...not at a control channel of 854.0625. So what the heck is this? :?:

I looked it up. Here is what I found:

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&action=fcc&cs=WPME317

Now I have seen these listings a while ago and made note of one "distant" control channel I received from what I thought was a IR site off the main SOF Motorola system. Not much traffic. The FCC listing are HUGE for this license in the lower 800 band! Then I thought this might be the SLERS thing. NO! It's not! This is a Motorola P25 system and I'm not hearing any of the traffic from the main Motorola P25 system.

I zoomed out the map and looked at all five tower locations. I know these sites. I was in the Ft. Drum site not long ago and saw the MACOM and Motorola equipment (both active...not linked). We are co-located on the same tower and I helped T/S a power surge problem with the STO guy, so I saw the stuff up close and personal. I do not think this new system was there...or will it be in the future? (conversion?)

I believe the full-scale CC signal I'm listening to is coming from the Palm City tower on the Turnpike. That is the closest tower to me. The system has 20 channels licensed, so it's no slouch! Something big is going on here folks, and it's right under our nose.

Does anyone know of another Florida Motorola supersystem going up? More investigation is needed here. I remember seeing these licenses all over the state (on the 806 - 821 band) and wondering what this was going to be used for. I wish I could get the sys ID! Anyone know what the state is doing with this system?

 

[SOFA_KING]

UPDATE:

I checked the whole state with the FCC data. This is a huge statewide plan with 20K0F9W emission (Motorola). It's in all parts of the state and towers are listed everywhere. MACOM is emission 14K0F9W, so separating the "three" systems is easy. (including the original Motorola system)

I have heard another transmission on TG 6672. I have ARC250 Pro on the job. This system is active, although not very.

I went to four nearby sites to check what control channels were active.

Palm City (big tower on the Turnpike & CR714 Martin Hwy.)
867.9500 (original Motorola system)
854.0625 (new Motorola system)
853.8750 (new MACOM system)

Port St. Lucie (small tower on Village Green Drive)
853.8750 (new MACOM system)

Ft. Pierce (big tower on Oleander in the city of Ft. P.)
867.9500 (original Motorola system)

Ft. Drum (mid size in NW St. Lucie County next to the Turnpike)
867.9500 (original Motorola system)
867.4750 (new MACOM system)

I work at most of the towers listed for all systems in four counties around my area, so I will check CCs when I get back from vacation.

Is the 854.0625 system in Palm City just a license holder with a few users? Why does the state have so many licenses in the low 800 band? (MORE FREQUENCIES THAN THE MACOM STUFF!) Why are they continuing to acquire new licenses and expanding on this system? What is the state planning here? Is anyone else hearing anything on these Motorola emission licensed frequencies in the 806-821/851-866 band, and if so...what?

Phil

PS - I have the EDACS freqs programmed in and have not seen any activity yet. To be truthful, I don't understand the system design/frequency use, and the license information shows allot of strange overlap that does not make sense. In some cases they have the same freq licensed THREE times at the same site. MACOM...yuck! :x

 

[W4KRR]

Hey Sofa,

Do the records show any frequencies in the Broward County area?

Are you sure this is a new State Motorola system? Why would the state construct a new Motorola system when they're in the process of dumping the existing Moto system in favor of the new MACOM system? Doesn't make any sense. Have you run Trunker to try to get a system ID?

 

[SOFA_KING]

Hi Ken,

Yes:

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&action=fcc&cs=WNAY604

That is the big question. In the case of Broward, it looks like a smaller group, but still a fair size. It also looks like many listing have been switched to 14K0F9W...even the current P25 system. :roll:

I also see many errors on the licenses, so it could be a case of the SOT not knowing what the %^(& they are doing.

Check out that list and see if you have any active in Broward. I just heard another P25 transmission on TG 06672 up here. I think it was someone playing around. Distant voice not directed in the mic. A few keys. Traffic freq was 854.3125 on all transmissions captured so far..

BTW - BCD396T looks nice! I wish I had one. I do not run Trunker and this would help. I would prefer a mobile version. :wink:

 

[W4KRR]

The frequencies that are referred to in the link you posted are all existing frequencies used in the current Motorola P25 system. There are additional frequencies that are not listed in this link that are being used, including the control channel for this area which is 867.4375. But this is all just the existing Motorola system here, it isn't new.

 

[SOFA_KING]

Interesting. I don't get to monitor down there too often. Many many more are listed with the 14K0F9W emission. So who knows. All I do know is that every part of the state has these...even those counties that never had the motorola system. Perhaps they did not change the FCC license to the new emission yet. But that still does not explain what is going on up here in Palm City (Martin County).

Check out some of the many others listed.

Phil

 

[SOFA_KING]

UPDATE

Hearing some activity now on this new system.

Today a speed detail was on THIS system and NOT the main system.

TG 63184

Also hearing other FHP TGs
63056
63568
63024

One FWCC
39888

So what is this? A special site for Aircraft? The state says they will have 10 of these around the state to minimize interference. This does not add up to the license, but license mistakes/abuse is common. Also, with no ground units on the main system, that rules out a link between the two systems. Only one traffic channel so far. This CC also goes off the air from time to time. What the heck is this?

 

[Mozilla]

800 MHZ State System

Could it be that since they have to do a switch over... they will use this system to free up frequencies while they bring on line the EDACS system.
That would make sense for the interference issue. ALso what is the system ID that you are seeing. They have more than one running down South... 8)

 

[W4KRR]

Re: 800 MHZ State System

Could it be that since they have to do a switch over... they will use this system to free up frequencies while they bring on line the EDACS system.
That would make sense for the interference issue. ALso what is the system ID that you are seeing. They have more than one running down South... 8)

I was thinking the same thing, a temporary system for transition purposes. But that seems like a lot of trouble to go to.

The only system ID I know about for the state Motorola networked system is 2d3d, I have not heard of another one.

 

[Mozilla]

Transition

Well, after looking at some of the groups he listed, I'mm almost positive its transitional. I think because of the system design and its inner workings they went this route so they could bring the system on line and then add the subcribers without having to do it all in one shot. As to the system ID yes, that is the main one, but... there are systems within systems ... :shock:

 

[SOFA_KING]

Most of the traffic I hear is "air to ground". The SOT says on their web site that 10 special towers were to have a system for the aircraft, as they tend to interfere with the increased range. St. Lucie County was one of those listed as having this. Palm City is close. As far as I can tell, it's a standalone tower. The rest of them are not simulcasting. But the SOT said only the aircraft would have this "special channel", and not the ground units. Ground units were not heard on the main system. Maybe the link is not in place. But why go through this much work with a Motorola system? If it's being phased out, why not use an EDACS system? Will the air units keep a Motorola radio?

I don't think it's part of the transition. One tower would not cut it for the entire area. The new EDACS frequencies are separate from the current system. I have seen the stuff and the frequencies were typed up for the EDACS equipment. The EDACS control channels are on the air. I monitor the EDACS traffic channels. No traffic at this time. When the consoles are put in place at Lake Worth, then I expect to here a link between both systems until the transition is complete. Then say bye bye to the Motorola system :sad:

Whatever this is, it's odd. I have also heard some "secret squirrel" type stuff. I still think it's for the aircraft. When the air unit changes talkgroups, I here what he is listening to. He switches to FWCC in Titusville from time to time.

Sorry I can't get the SYS ID.

 

[fl-dj]

Enough speculation

854.0625 is one of 2 VOICE ON CONTROL sites that the Motorola system has up for Aircraft only in Phase I and Phase II of the Motorola system for the State. The 2nd channel at that site is 854. 3125 and the only units allowed to use or "light up" the site are aircraft. The site is located in Stuart and is co-located with the Site 11 channels on the same combiner.

The theory behind this was that if an aircraft were to be working on the system they could light up sites for several hundred miles so the state took the que from Motorola and programmed aircraft radios to prefer the aircraft only sites when they were in range and the normal system sites when they were on the ground, what's considered in-range, about 50' or just after take-off.

This is why you're only hearing calls related to aircraft traffic on this site.

If this were the EDACS system you'd not be hearing anything since it's 100% encrypted. There are no plans for the state to use 1 systems channels for the transition to the other system, only migrate channels from one system to the other and then that frequency would go dark on the old Motorola system.

Hope this answers your questions...

 

[SOFA_KING]

Well, it confirms what I was thinking. I do allot of searching and I have not heard this before. How long has this been up? Also, will it be replaced with EDACS?

One more question...You appear to know some "inside" information. Do you work for the state?

 

[W4KRR]

I don't think it's part of the transition. One tower would not cut it for the entire area. The new EDACS frequencies are separate from the current system. I have seen the stuff and the frequencies were typed up for the EDACS equipment. The EDACS control channels are on the air. I monitor the EDACS traffic channels. No traffic at this time. When the consoles are put in place at Lake Worth, then I expect to here a link between both systems until the transition is complete. Then say bye bye to the Motorola system :sad:

Anyone know a time frame for the cutover to the EDACS system in south Florida? There's no mention of a date on the state's web site.

 

[Mozilla]

FLorida System

Actually FL DJ seems to have hit it on the head, with the aircraft system... Its up in the air as to when and what is going to happen... The State Technology Office has just made a transition of sort, however it appears the communications and other service besides computers will continue to be handled by the same people, just under different auspices.http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/36290-1.html

I actually need to make the call to Tallahassee on this since we utilize radios on the system and will have to make some descisions soon, as to what we are going to use for a supplemental system or to transition over when a change comes. I have seen M/A COM vans in the the Martin, Palm Beach County area, but have no way of knowing how it relates to the change over. There was a rumour that the Motorola system might be left on line in a limited fashion down here, but personally its ssems unlikely. :?: [/b]

 

[fl-dj]

Well, it confirms what I was thinking. I do allot of searching and I have not heard this before. How long has this been up? Also, will it be replaced with EDACS?

One more question...You appear to know some "inside" information. Do you work for the state?

The two aircraft sites have been online since the system went live in Phase II, which was about 5 years ago, there is the one you just discovered and there is one just outside of Orlando which covers everything north, that site is at the DMS office in Orlando.

Again these are both 2 channel sites and are voice on control which means that the control channel will assign the 1 voice channel and if by chance another unit needs to use the site on another talkgroup, the control channel will assign itself as a voice channel until the unit de-keys and brings back the control channel. The issue with this is that the original user on the voice channel now must wait until the 2nd call is clear and the channel 1 returns to control, you can see where this would cause major delays if the person on the 1st call was long winded.

 

[fl-dj]

I don't think it's part of the transition. One tower would not cut it for the entire area. The new EDACS frequencies are separate from the current system. I have seen the stuff and the frequencies were typed up for the EDACS equipment. The EDACS control channels are on the air. I monitor the EDACS traffic channels. No traffic at this time. When the consoles are put in place at Lake Worth, then I expect to here a link between both systems until the transition is complete. Then say bye bye to the Motorola system :sad:

Anyone know a time frame for the cutover to the EDACS system in south Florida? There's no mention of a date on the state's web site.

That's the best kept secret in the communications industry right now, there isn't one person that can say for sure, however a lot of equipment is in place and short of vehicle installs they really should be close, figure about another 18 months or so.

 

[LastCall]

This new Florida State temporary system is very active today! I am on 854.0625.

 

[AndreniW]

I can't hear it (Palm Beach Central County). Are there any other freqs?

Andrew

I own a Bearcat BC100XLT, RadioShack PRO-46, RadioShack PRO-95.